out.
LionI don’t see why not. It works with no problem on atom processors. ARM processors aren’t THAT far off.
ZynewaveIt is not a problem running Podium on ARM processors. I already have Podium running on ARM with the experimental iOS port I did a while back.
What is more problematic is that Microsoft is rumored to only support Metro style apps and not desktop apps, with Windows 8 on ARM based tablets. The new Metro API is called WinRT, which replaces the old Win32 API. With WinRT, Microsoft has understandably chosen to cut out some of the older redundant technology. For example, the Win32 GDI graphics system that Podium uses, is replaced by Direct2D in WinRT. So, I’ll need to implement support for Direct2D in Podium. There are other problem areas, such as with the audio and MIDI support in WinRT, but I’ll just have to deal with them one at a time.
LionJust out of curiosity is there any idea around how long that would take?
michi_makso what happened to the list with 50+ request you had bookmarked?
getting some basic features done would be more pressing, wouldn’t it?
btw : AirDisplay does a tremendous job in supplying touch input to Podium …
Zynewave@Lion wrote:
Just out of curiosity is there any idea around how long that would take?
The GDI/Direct2D thing will take less than a week.
Zynewave@michi_mak wrote:
so what happened to the list with 50+ request you had bookmarked?
I haven’t lost it, if that’s what you’re thinking.
thcilnnahojIf you need any help rewriting Podium in JavaScript/HTML5, just let me know. 😉
Zynewave@thcilnnahoj wrote:
If you need any help rewriting Podium in JavaScript/HTML5, just let me know. 😉
JavaScript/HTML5: Good choice, you’re all set to create fast and fluid Windows 8 apps 😉
Luckily for me, MS still considers C++ development equally important to C# and JavaScript/HTML5 in the new Windows 8 WinRT core, so I won’t need to port the code.
khaosRT may be a no go for Podium, MS are looking at 100ms latency as being acceptable under metro; also no ASIO drivers can be used under metro…
For people serious about music you’ll need the Windows 8 version thats going to run on x86.
MelodyMan@khaos wrote:
RT may be a no go for Podium, MS are looking at 100ms latency as being acceptable under metro; also no ASIO drivers can be used under metro…
For people serious about music you’ll need the Windows 8 version thats going to run on x86.
I don’t know where you get your info from but from what i have read on the Cakewalk-site this isn’t true. There is not much difference between Windows 7 and 8 in the end.
khaosYou may need to go re-read the article, that is where my information is from.
Windows 8 non ARM / non Metro performs better than Windows 7.
For audio streaming Metro utilizes the WASAPI (Windows audio streaming api). This is the multimedia framework that Microsoft debuted in Windows Vista. WASAPI supports low latency via what is known as “exclusive mode” where an application can bypass the high latency introduced by the system mixer. However based on reports from Microsoft it would appear that low latency audio applications were not considered in the Metro application model. See this blog post where Microsoft states that 100 msec was considered to be their goal for acceptable latency!
No low level support for low level driver models. e.g there appears to be no easy way to use the low latency Windows driver access that DAW users are accustomed to, such as ASIO or WDM kernel streaming, so access to custom USB or Firewire audio interfaces is questionable.
There is no built in MIDI support for Metro applications in the current version of Windows. This is a major disadvantage for music apps. Hopefully in the near future Microsoft will rectify this problem
That info relates to the new Metro apps which will be sold in the Microsoft App Store.
druid@MelodyMan wrote:
I don’t know where you get your info from but from what i have read on the Cakewalk-site this isn’t true. There is not much difference between Windows 7 and 8 in the end.
I think you’ll find that’s Windows 8, which runs on x86 processors. Windows RT, which runs on ARM processors, will have a lot more limitations on it.
Some I’m sure something can be done about, but I wonder if part of it is the fact that it’s an ARM processor? This is merely thinking out loud; I don’t know enough deep level stuff about CPUs to truly have any insight into that side of things.
The TelenatorI don’t understand what all the info ‘fuss’ is all about. Almost everything about RT and Win8 is now out there to read up on. Microsoft itself has had a lot to do with getting the info out. A very little bit of this shows promise, some makes me want to laugh, and the rest makes me want to cry.
Laugh: you get to read how MS thinks 100 ms latency is somehow okay.
Cry: This whole RT issue is doomsday for DAWs. BTW, have any of you really tried WASAPI? Really? What software were you supposedly using it with?
Promise: Win8 (full version, none of the RT crap employed) is more efficient — lower processing rates, better all around for audio. It will be an improvement, and I’m not going to take an hour to state all the details but they are now available as there has been enough testing. Most of the improvement for audio comes from a major change in how the cores receive their tasks. MS has put all the same info out there as was available at their dev camp getogethers. You will need to buy the pricier, full Win8 version on a tablet if you want decent results, although you will still be massively limited by HDD space on any pad, unless you resort to external storage.
Okay, so . . . you spend a large pile of money to get the full Win8 premium tablet PC. You can take it to the beach and fiddle about with recording projects. You’ll still be massively limited. Are you going to bring a keyboard controller with you, too? An external drive for large projects? A control surface? No to all and more.
Funny how on the iPad adverts they never show all the stinking wires running in and out that are needed to do much of what they show off in these adverts. While I welcome any improvements that Win8 will certainly bring to digital recording, these improvements will not be huge (unless MS comes up with something much more to add between now and this fall — very unlikely). The advantages I’ve actually seen will make me consider moving to Win8 on a laptop within perhaps 2 or 3 years, but I’m really completely happy with Win7 to be honest. I still only use 32-bit DAWs and plugs yet have still never maxed out my RAM (partly because I don’t screw around with bloated software such as Kontakt and similar). Why fix something that just ain’t broke?
khaosThere is 1 DAW that has a brillant implimentation of WASAPI and thats Acousticas Mixcraft. It actually works flawlessly; I dont even bother with ASIO4ALL where I have that installed. Now I have no idea why but it wouldnt surprise me if they actually are the only ones that took it seriously enought to impliment properly.
WinRT tablets are a stopgap in my mind; one that at the moment is interesting because they can be cheaper than x86; like normal PC’s prices will go down for x86 tablets and they will probably be the main choice. HP have just come out saying they are skipping RT tablets and will make x86.
I’ve already got 1 box thats dedicated to Windows 8 for development; and will move to it on all my devices as soon as its released.
The TelenatorMixcraft, aye? Cool. I really think that eventually all or most will be set up for WASAPI. I’d like to see it.
The devs at REAPER jumped into this tablet thing recently to declare they weren’t at all interested in designing anything for pad PCs (received generally with many sighs of relief among users there, considering there is enough other issues left to improve on most DAWs already).
Dismissing RT and focusing only on Win8, can anyone explain to me the advantage of having this or any DAW and related necessary software on a pad? I mean, screw going to the sandy beaches with it, just what is it good for other than fooling with musical ideas on some long car ride? I believe this pad thing is more of a fad than anything else. I’ve seen the iPad used as a control surface, and even there it is second rate to other options.