out.
khaosYou need to think of Windows 8 tablets not as a simple iPad copy but as an actual PC.
You can dock it to a docking station / 20″ HD monitor and it becomes a normal fully fledged PC, so you can be anywhere with your device and get things done. The x86 tablet will run on normal Intel/AMD chips; all your current hardware & software should work (audio cards / asio drivers, usb devices).
The big question now is do people want to work within a restricted iPad app environment or would they prefer full PC functionality in a tablet. It’s going to take quite a while for that question to be answered.
adimatis@khaos wrote:
The big question now is do people want to work within a restricted iPad app environment or would they prefer full PC functionality in a tablet. It’s going to take quite a while for that question to be answered.
Not to me. 😉
NO, I do NOT want to work like that.
I DO prefer full PC, either laptop or desktop.
I see no need or reason to go tablet. None whatsoever.
The TelenatorIn my own case, I can respond by saying I know quite well what the two versions of the Windows tablet/pad PC will be — both the ARM-loaded RT version and the top-dollar Win8. The thing is, when I record I’ve got wires coming out up the ying yang sometimes. I’m not taking any controller keyboard on a mountain hike or to the sandy beach. Yikes. I could see the virtue of a DAW on a pad if I took lots of very long tram or lorry rides — but I rarely ever do.
Remember, the pad is said to have only 64 gigs of HDD space MAX. A couple of big projects and all the needed extra software, etc., nails that. Then I need another wire running to an external drive. Suddenly I’m as wired up or even more than my trusty laptop.
Further, there are bound to be some compatibility issues with some things somewhere, especially the first year. REAPER devs have said to hell with designing or modding their product to fit the MS pad or iPad, so maybe my other main DAW is out of the game. There are a handful of VST makers who just aren’t interested in adapting all their plugins, should mods or recompiling be needed. Hell, you still can’t get half of the VST plugs out there in 64 bit yet, so how do you expect them to kiss MS’s butt and hurry up and fix plugs for what may be a FAIL of a new pad deal?
Think how it’s going — if you make VSTs, you now have to have one for MAC, one for PC, one for Reason proprietary, a 64-bit version, one for RT, maybe one for Win8 pad, etc., etc. You have to cough up another every time somebody comes up with another ‘bright’ idea — a new OS or PC build. It’s getting ridiculous.
I just don’t see this working real well. The full Win8 pad (no RT Metro nonsense) is reported to cost stripped bare more than a goodie-loaded iPad. That’s a fantastic luxury, if you ask me. Also, I think the new look with the tiles and aweful colours is simply hideous. No more Aeroglass. Can’t use a touch screen when at hard work on a DAW with guitar or instrument sweating up my hands.
I want to ask again: What is the advantage of a pad, no matter how good, over an equally portable laptop? I just don’t get it. What am I missing here?
druidWindows 8 – I can’t see the ‘arm in it. 8)
Time Traveler@Zynewave wrote:
I have no intention of letting Podium die. I realize it’s been a while since the last release, but I’ve been busy with another job. I have to do other work to make a living.
Most overnight successes come with a 20 year story of struggle. Just remember.. Podium has a free version. Tablet computers will be bigger than the PC and Laptops ever were. Tablets are inexpensive, and mobile, and they are only going to get more powerful.
Word of mouth is a funny thing. 1 minute you are nobody.. Next minute, “a major person of influence starts to use the product, and boom.” You win.
I saw the founders story of this company on CNBC, “how I made my millions.”
episode 9
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000036391
I’ve also spent some time with the Windows 8 developer preview, to examine what is needed to make Podium run on that platform. The world is moving fast towards touch-based input on tablet-size form factors, and I want to ensure that Podium will run on those systems as well.
Awesome! I think this is the right idea for sure.
That will require a series of updates that I’m preparing, such as an updated project file storage method, and updates to the graphics and audio layer I’m using in Podium. Those updates will take some time and unfortunately does not provide new features, but I find it important that Podium will be able to support all Windows 8 platforms (Intel/Arm) from the day Windows 8 launches.
I am waiting for October as well. I am in the market to buy a Lenovo Thinkpad tablet.. Perhaps a Microsoft Surface Tablet.. I am not sure yet.
I’m hoping to travel to Jamaica in late January, or early February of 2013. I hope to take a tablet done there and record some Reggae.. I think Podium would be perfect for this.
Its lightweight. Without bloat. I can tell it runs well, and is stable. The full version has Rewire ( Important to me, because I am a Renoise user. ) Also, Podium has a 64 bit mix engine! Awesome…
When I buy my tablet in October or November.. You can be quite sure you have at least one person, coming to download the Podium Demo and see how it works.
Where there is 1. There is many. That is nature of music. And our connected world.
You have a beautiful software here. I wish I had found out about it sooner.
Time slows down in the morning, never give up..
Cheers
The TelenatorDid I miss something? A new post perhaps? Podium will be ready for a PAD this fall? It will run on everything to do with Win8 — this means including ARM and Metro? This will all be something to see. I may be overly cautious, but considering the number of changes needed, and a big fat compile or two, I’d be surprised if it is any earlier than late spring 2013 that Podium runs on a Win8-equipped pad.
Respectfully, I have to disagree with Frits about how big pads will be. There are still healthy numbers using desktops and Vista, although less each few years. Could it be that some of us actually prefer laptops? I’d really like to know if most people think pads are the best thng since sliced bread. Sales of iPad seem to be more flat recently.
Time Traveler, I keep asking around but never receive any intelligent answer. Okay, then, so off to record reggae. Please tell me why a pad is needed to do this. Why would a good laptop be any less able to go mobile? And with its far greater storage for all those big reggae WAV files, it would do a much better job of it? Nobody can explain why a pad is supposedly such/any advantage or so necessary.
My best laptop is just under 5 pounds, 500 Gb of disk space, a 15.5 screen which is not too big and ungainly (makes for easy viewing in HD besides), and closed it is under an inch thick. In its soft case it fits in any knapsack or, gee whiz, right under my arm carried! I’m still thinking this pad thing is just a fad. My trusty laptop is plenty mobile and portable.
So, can you explain what feature(s) of pads makes them so much better? Again, what am I missing in all of this almost lemming-like behavior I’m seeing here and there?
out@The Telenator wrote:
Respectfully, I have to disagree with Frits about how big pads will be. There are still healthy numbers using desktops and Vista, although less each few years. Could it be that some of us actually prefer laptops? I’d really like to know if most people think pads are the best thng since sliced bread. Sales of iPad seem to be more flat recently.
Time Traveler, I keep asking around but never receive any intelligent answer. Okay, then, so off to record reggae. Please tell me why a pad is needed to do this. Why would a good laptop be any less able to go mobile? And with its far greater storage for all those big reggae WAV files, it would do a much better job of it? Nobody can explain why a pad is supposedly such/any advantage or so necessary.
My best laptop is just under 5 pounds, 500 Gb of disk space, a 15.5 screen which is not too big and ungainly (makes for easy viewing in HD besides), and closed it is under an inch thick. In its soft case it fits in any knapsack or, gee whiz, right under my arm carried! I’m still thinking this pad thing is just a fad. My trusty laptop is plenty mobile and portable.
So, can you explain what feature(s) of pads makes them so much better? Again, what am I missing in all of this almost lemming-like behavior I’m seeing here and there?
In general; direct manipulation of multiple on-screen objects– simultaneously –seems like a pretty significant advantage to me; a closer mating of the physical world with the virtual world. If it’s not the future, it’s only because someone, instead, figures out how to project and manipulate virtual, 3d objects in real space.
Can you imagine directly manipulating a 3d chunk of virtual audio with your hands? The thought of it kind’a freaks me out, but I like it.
As far as recording, it may be a while before a touch-pad has the computing power for serious audio work, on its own, but give it time. At any rate, it doesn’t mean a pad can’t be taken full advantage of, in tandem with the full power of a desktop, since the real advantage is in the interfacing.
Anyway, that’s my, ever devaluing, $0.02 on the subject. 🙂
The TelenatorAre you forgetting? The whole touch screen thing has been going on for quite a few years now. It is (or was) most available and most employed on laptops, so if you were meaning this as a unique advantage of pads, then this is completely untrue. If you also meant it as some justification of pads, obviously that would be incorrect, too.
As very many have pointed out through thiese whole weeks-long pad discussions, my hands are often a sweaty mess when using a DAW, since I’ve often just come off working my guitars. There is NO WAY I am putting my greasy prints all over my screen when I’m working. Others, and many not guitarists, have said precisely the same. Ideally, I like my screens clear as crystal and spotless, so I can ‘feel’ less messy and to see all the detail. I really don’t need to fiddle with zooming things with my fingers; the regular tools and the seeming hundreds of shortcuts for every little sneeze or whine these days are more than enough.
Perhaps there is some other reason why pads are all the rage for digital music, if indeed they actually are, although we can dismiss storage space as a help. Once the OS and needed software for DAWs and plugs goes in, there isn’t a lot left, even if you are fortunate to have installed an SSD. I think, on a heavy project, you will only have space for IT and that will be all. I can use 30-40 gigs on one only, once I’ve been rolling and before the final edits.
out@The Telenator wrote:
…if you were meaning this as a unique advantage of pads…
No, Just talking about multi-touch as a tech in general.
As very many have pointed out through thiese whole weeks-long pad discussions, my hands are often a sweaty mess when using a DAW, since I’ve often just come off working my guitars. There is NO WAY I am putting my greasy prints all over my screen when I’m working. Others, and many not guitarists, have said precisely the same. Ideally, I like my screens clear as crystal and spotless, so I can ‘feel’ less messy and to see all the detail.I really don’t need to fiddle with zooming things with my fingers; the regular tools and the seeming hundreds of shortcuts for every little sneeze or whine these days are more than enough.
Fair enough. Do what works best for you.
The Telenatorout wrote:
“Fair enough. Do what works best for you.”
Ultimately, I think THIS is all that the whole ‘to PAD or not to PAD’ comes down to. Personally, I’ve always said and felt that these pads were ‘solutions looking for a problem.’ I know computers, computing, software and their relationship to music well enough to understand that, whether there are advantages or disadvantages, whether someone offers all manner of rationales, this ‘pad thing’ is really nothing but a personal choice.
Sure, there are lots of reasons lurking behind all this — and many of them perhaps rather different than a lot of people might guess. In the end, if somebody thinks he needs to get a pad, then it will be a pad, unless something new comes along and influences.
However, I will say, based on digital audio criteria alone (as the basis truly ought to be), I see a fair amount of hassles and troubles ahead, and it looks like that won’t be likely to change anytime soon.
Enjoy Your PAD.
outAt this point, in a audio production environment, I think they are highly useful as controllers. Think: Lemur, or any number of DAW controller apps. If you’re heavily into software synths, then having an iPad with Lemur is probably a revelation for you.
I personally like having DAW transport control on my iPhone. It simplifies self tracking of acoustic instruments for me. Of course, there are a multitude of other options available for this, but I already had the iPhone, so all I need to do was dl the app and set it up.
As for using a pad as a standalone multi-track recorder, I don’t see it. I use my iphone to record ideas and jams, etc., which it truly excels at (with the right app), but nothing more. The hardware isn’t there, yet and neither is the software.
I think, there would need to be a software paradigm shift, along with the necessary hardware advances, in order for a pad to truly revolutionize digital audio production. Developers would need to consider the full implications of what touch tech has to offer and design their audio platform around that.
Anyway, I’m curious to see what Fritz does with Podium.
The TelenatorAlthough I’m not interested in having a pad, other than perhaps as an expensive toy for my experimenting, for those who are much more serious than I — the paradigm shift is indeed starting to take place.
Animoog is a simply fantastic instrument for iPad. And if you haven’t already, you must check out what is going on with Cantor (which happens to work quite well on an iPhone too)!
Regarding pads as controllers, I’ve tested this some in the studio and had, until recently, a friend working on it intensely. While the iPad certainly works in this capacity and ought to be fine for most home use, in speed it lags far behind the the better dedicated controllers. I expect this to change before too long. This wouldn’t be acceptable for most pro studio use. Also, last I checked, there wasn’t anything being discussed for VCO automation control in iPad. This could have been added already somewhere.
The discussion here has focused on the iPad. This is a good thing, because any pads employing anything Android have severe issues (latency perhaps the biggest) that will take intense efforts to resolve. Regarding the Win8 (and dismissing anything to do with Metro), some of the current testing has looked rather positive, with modest processing savings and some promise for audio use. Of course, the minute I say that someone yet unheard from pops up on the scene announcing poor results. Hard to know who to believe, but we will find out soon enough now.
outThose do look like fun! I’ll have to wait until I can justify a new toy like an iPad though. My iPhone won’t run either of them.
The TelenatorI don’t know about Animoog — I’ve only seen it on an iPad, but Cantor was first demoed to me on what I was sure was some 3 or 4 version of an iPhone. In fact, if you can track down any YouTube posts I wouldn’t be surprised if it was demoed at least some on iPhone there.
After much talk about Cantor regarding its use for microtonalism, I started fooling around with a synth that uses the same, those TET-scales. Then, someone sent me a new article about Cantor, containing a short video in which its inventor was explaining all about it and showing how it worked using an iPhone. Wish I could remember what journal had that story, but it was recent and should be searchable. It was hard to believe what a great job of playing he was doing, hitting those pitches on such a tiny screen.
outYeah, you can get Animoog for the iPhone, but it has to be 4th gen, or newer, and I have a 3rd gen. 😡
So much for a bird in the hand 😆
*edit – I thought cantor was the same for some reason, but it looks like it doesn’t have the iphone 4 restriction. guess I got them mixed up.