Klemperer.
KlempererHi all,
I read 4 manuals of hosts simultaneously during the last days and might be a little bit like the germans say “not seeing the forest with all those many trees before me”. Anyways it got me to decide for Podium.
So my question: is it possible to record guitar freeform (no clicktrack) and then afterwards being able to match the MIDI tempo to my audio part? (this is important for using Jamstix to accompany the guitar-tempo-changes).
As far as I understood the Wiki and manual it says that in Podium the audio will stretch and compress as you change the MIDI tempo and things will still never line up. See HERE in the manual – I hope I get it right?
Problem is (and for a friend too who just tries to find a solution in different hosts) important if you prefer to record your ideas with the guitar just as they come, and without having to think BEFORE about which bpm to choose or which tempo changes. So would there be an easy way to match the Midi tempo to the audio you record? Something pretty obvious maybe, but well… I don’t get it right now, maybe someone can help?
KlempererSo maybe there doesn’t seem to be an easy solution for this, or the question is not important for other users or not easy to achieve? I’ll just have a look into the other hosts I own to get this done, I think there are some workarounds in some, and I’ll use Podium for what it is for 🙂 .
ZynewaveThere is no command yet to match the tempo of an arrangement to an audio recording. But I intend to add this feature. It would be a “match tempo to selection” kind of edit menu, with a dialog box where you would enter the time signature and how many bars the audio recording stretches. Podium would then insert a tempo event that matches the arrangement to the recording.
Until this is implemented, you can do it manually by inserting a tempo event and adjusting the tempo until the bar grid lines lines up with the audio recording. The sound events will resize, and this is in fact what you want in this case.
Klempererthanks very much for the answer 🙂 ! I already tried this or that and will look how the “inserting a tempo event” will work with Jamstix (which is quite new to me too for guitar recording, I only used it with synths up to now). The nice thing in Podium is you learn to see things from a different point of view after reading the manual. Nice!
sam c@Klemperer wrote:
Hi all,
So my question: is it possible to record guitar freeform (no clicktrack) and then afterwards being able to match the MIDI tempo to my audio part? (this is important for using Jamstix to accompany the guitar-tempo-changes).
if you record a guitar freeform, can you maintain proper time?
i am curious what you are doing this for?
pavouk100@Zynewave wrote:
Until this is implemented, you can do it manually by inserting a tempo event and adjusting the tempo until the bar grid lines lines up with the audio recording. The sound events will resize, and this is in fact what you want in this case.
And is there any similar possibility for midi sequence? I mean, if I record free-form improvization as a midi track (not paying attention to the host’s tempo), and then want to adjust the whole global arrangement’s tempo according to my recorded sequence, how can I do it? I think that adding tempo changes also moves MIDI events inside the sequence in time, while I want them to be fixed-in-time, not fixed-in-tempo…
Thinking more about it, the solution for me would be to add property to MIDI sequence saying whether the contents of the sequence is fixed-in-time or fixed-in-tempo. Does it make sense?
ZynewaveAnd is there any similar possibility for midi sequence?
Not yet. This will be possible when I implement time stretching (of both sound and sequence events). You will then be able to stretch a freehand recorded note sequence so that it aligns with the bar/beat grid lines.
A property on the sequence saying whether it should lock to clock time or bar/beat time is something I’ll look at in a distant future.
pavouk100@Zynewave wrote:
Not yet. This will be possible when I implement time stretching (of both sound and sequence events). You will then be able to stretch a freehand recorded note sequence so that it aligns with the bar/beat grid lines.
OK, but this freehand sequence has tempo changes inside (some of them intentional, some of them less intentional 😳 ), which I’d generally like to preserve and instead create/modify the changes of tempo of the whole arrangement. I guess that this will still not be possible with sequence time-stretching.
@Zynewave wrote:
A property on the sequence saying whether it should lock to clock time or bar/beat time is something I’ll look at in a distant future.
OK, will have to find other ways of work. Maybe learning to play with metronome would be the best course of action 😆
Klemperer@sam c wrote:
if you record a guitar freeform, can you maintain proper time?
i am curious what you are doing this for?
Hi sam, surely not always 🙂 . A real good guitarplayer from the Revalver- and other forums might though, and he is in need of this feature too. It is just a way of being able to noodle with the guitar for me and not caring about the formerly setup timesignature. I felt somewhat restricted earlier when setting up songs where I had, say, my drums and a few pad or synths sounds and the guitar had to “obey” to all that.
I can think of switching from Idea X to Y with the guitar, and maybe, just in case I’d like my playing I would like to easily match the playing of, eg Jamstix, to my guitar-tempo-changes.
Not really sure if I explain it well…lately I’ve been interested in uncommon timesignatures as well, there is an old thread at KVR about this (maybe in the theory-forum, have to check) and additionally I started listening to funny 7/8 or 13/16 dances or whatever. I don’t play that kind of music, but some dances you can listen to at http://www.dunav.org are with such for many of us uncommon rhythms, and I thought I’d learn to do that. Metal-freaks told me a lot about that too.
There seems a way to do those tempo changes like your guitar-noodling or singing “tells you” (errm…) in Reaper now as I read in their forum.
sam ci see what you mean. funny, we all write and come with ideas in different ways. well, as long as we keep playing and recording, that is what is so cool about all of this for me!
i saw you on the reaper forum, are you using reaper too? with Frits new update i will soon be exclusively Podium. i guess i will always watch reaper though. that justin is unbelievable!
Klemperer@sam c wrote:
i see what you mean. funny, we all write and come with ideas in different ways. well, as long as we keep playing and recording, that is what is so cool about all of this for me!
i saw you on the reaper forum, are you using reaper too? with Frits new update i will soon be exclusively Podium. i guess i will always watch reaper though. that justin is unbelievable!
Yes, I bought a Reaper license too.
I come from EnergyXT, and all 3 developers seem to be unique and really outstanding, but I needed a new approach, and Podium is just great even for me in the first week.
I hope to run Podium alone and EXT inside it as VST, and will use Reaper too.
All 3 are this great…and as I said I wished I could just use all of those together, like if Reaper or Podium were VST too 🙂 . Of course all developers want to make their own host as good as they dream of, but it would for example release them too in some ways.
for example timestretching:
Jorgen Aase has licensed this timestretch-algorithm from the company Live has it too (correct me if I’m wrong), and thus all who bought EXT for 39 Euro in the past (more expensive now) could simply load EXT2 into Podium, and timestretch your audio if you like, there. I read building an own timestretch-algorithm must be a hell of a work? Then not all Podium users bought a EXT license 2004-now…
guitarzanHello all, I’m new here (just now getting around to checking out the CM version of Podium) and I am specifically searching for host that has the kind of MIDI tempo manipulation capabilies Klemperer has mentioned here, so I thought I’d post my reasons too.
Like most guitar players I know, my ideas come from jam sessions or just noodling and I really have no idea about the time signature or BPM – but the phrasing is right where I want it to be. I just had a hell of a time with a short animation theme even though it ended up being a straight forward 4/4 168 BPM. The catch was that my guitar part had to start just after (swing time, as always for me) the third beat of the first measure in order to get Jamstix to kick out a matching drum part. It was my own original rhythm guitar part, but I had no idea where to fit it into a complete composition.
What I really want is an easy interactive way to figure out not only BPM (that’s not too bad as it is really) but also time signature and on what beat my guitar idea starts on. The best way I can think of would be a way to comprehensively experiment with MIDI tempo realtime against prerecorded audio. There are countless tools to mangle and chop audio to fit a MIDI tempo, but it seems little is available to manipulate MIDI tempo into fitting with audio.
guitarzanI just thought I should add that I know very little about MIDI, so if there are already methods to do the things I’m trying to do I’d be very happy to hear about them!
Klemperer…I just want to add that guitarzan’s testing was the reason I posted here too, he is by far the better guitar-player (and I will often ask him for help about guitar-things in the future methinks) – so he describes the topic far better 🙂
sam cguitarzan and klemperer, i am afraid i will be of no help. i do write somethings by jamming or “noodling” but most of my ideas start from am interest in a rhythm or lyric. at that point i have decided if i want it to be 120 bpm 4/4 or 130 bpm 12/8. as for certain notes starting on the “and” or the fourth beat, that comes a little later but is already in the scope of the 135 bpm 12/8 time. i am writing blues, rock, and progressive rock. if you like, check out my newest, Don’t Expect Anything At all-here http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?songs=315264&T=6329
what you guys say you are doing is interesting. makes me think a bit. but my sequence of writing is a bit different. i think! 😉