sobaka.
alexOriginally: … MOST NEEDED FEATURES IN PODIUM
Hi, evb!
@alex wrote:
I did a little research. I started with YOUR FEATURE REQUESTS thread (and checked out every other thread that contains feature requests), and found out that there are exactly 6 features that are really frequently mentioned as well as 5 or six more which are also very important (if not exactly as important as the first six).
Most mentioned (in this order):
1.MIDI routing
2. Pre-count
3. Dithering
4.Time stretching
5. Qwerty keyboard as MIDI controller (on-screen MIDI keyboard)
6. Support for more file formats (mp3, flac etc)
Closely followed by:
7. Access to an external wave editor
8. Master tempo automation
9. In track automation
10. MIDI effects/MIDI arpeggiator
11. Multiple track editing
12. Export a region as a wave file by one command
(I have to expand on this one:
Bounce to mono (not only stereo) + the following options:
Bounce to new track:
-mono
-stereo
-selected region (mono)
-selected region (stereo) )
* I had to improvise a little because people often describe similar things differently. Number 12 – there’re also “export loop” and “export loop to MIDI” requests.
I decided not to make a Poll because Poll system allows only one vote per topic. So, I will ask you to choose three features from the list you need most (please, just write three numbers – no explanations needed) and on February 1st, we will know which features are most needed. Then, Frits will be able to see and say what he can do about it.
Cheers, Alex
German FafianFirst of all; Happy 2013 to all here.
I would choose;
BTW;
I have a little note in respect to “Time Stretch” implementation.
If it is implemented, make sure there is an option to “do not stretch audio clips when doing tempo changes”
Let me explain.
I am also an FL studio user and in FL, audio stretch can not be disabled so when you have a song with Tempo changes and you have several guitar parts, the audio clips keep stretching back an forth all over the place and it becomes a pain in the butt when recording other guitar parts and/or doing small audio clips which do not run the full length of the track.
It makes recording audio parts in songs with tempo changes almost impossible!
alex1. MIDI routing
2. Pre-count
3. Access to an external wave editor
adimatisHi all!
For the sake of the cake…
Here’s my order, from your list:
4
6
1
11
7
9
3
The TelenatorWOW! You really nailed it, Alex! This is everything we talked about a few months back when reviewing all. And it’s right about the order I remember. Man, this thread is beautiful. It’s got it all!
Here’s my three only, from most wanted on down:
1.MIDI routing
2. Pre-count
7. Access to an external WAV editor (Secondary Editor)
Please everybody, whether licensed or free edition user, PLEASE SELECT YOUR THREE MOST WANTED FEATURES from the top post and enter them in this thread.
sobakaI would like to see all of these functions, but that it was really convenient …
Tomorrow I will write a couple of his ideas 😉 …
alexInteresting…..
131 views – 5 replies. That means you can read. Can you also write?
The Telenator’s “YOUR FEATURE REQUEST LISTS” thread: 2758 views – 36 responses (and only 16 or 17 of them are actually FR – the rest are posts discussing certain features).
So, what on Earth makes you believe that anything here can be “user driven”, when nobody asks for anything?
kozabergerIn order of importance for me:
3. Dithering
10. MIDI effects/MIDI arpeggiator
5. Qwerty keyboard as MIDI controller (on-screen MIDI keyboard)
12. Export a region as a wave file by one command
The TelenatorAh, Alex — you have discovered my deep dark secret to my threads and posts. You see, I have a trained monkey who has been taught to sign into the Zynewave Forum whenever he passes by a PC (can use a Mac too, and actually prefers them for who knows what reason!). Anyhow, he locates any and every thread where I have posted my recent pearls of wisdom, then clicks into the thread repeatedly to UP the the hit counter, thus making it seem as if I’ve written something extremely wise and important. Neat or What? You know, this is how some popular cult figures got their start.
Say, while I’m here I wanted to mention that we seem to have a legion of silent readers at this forum. I first noticed it perhaps 6 months ago. Nary a trace of them, never a post I’m guessing. They are the Watchers, TheyWhoShallNotPost. They Who Must Only Use the Podium Secretly Late in the Lonely Night. Only record is that they can drive up a hit meter on a new thread into the thousands in no time and with seemingly no effort. Scary!!!
You Know, I noticed right after I did my civic duty as requested here the other day that I had chosen the exact same 3 features as you listed. Saw it right away after posting. Making that third and final pick was nearly impossible, if you know what I mean. So many needed features and such our tiny lists!
Cheers!
Tele
alex@The Telenator wrote:
Ah, Alex — you have discovered my deep dark secret to my threads and posts. You see, I have a trained monkey who has been taught to sign into the Zynewave Forum whenever he passes by a PC (can use a Mac too, and actually prefers them for who knows what reason!). Anyhow, he locates any and every thread where I have posted my recent pearls of wisdom, then clicks into the thread repeatedly to UP the the hit counter, thus making it seem as if I’ve written something extremely wise and important. Neat or What? You know, this is how some popular cult figures got their start.
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
@The Telenator wrote:
You Know, I noticed right after I did my civic duty as requested here the other day that I had chosen the exact same 3 features as you listed. Saw it right away after posting. Making that third and final pick was nearly impossible, if you know what I mean. So many needed features and such our tiny lists!
Yes, we discussed it lately. Solves many problems (time stretching (not real time), sample rate conversion (not on the fly), dithering ….).
At this point I must say something (and please, don’t let this affect anyone’s choice – all of these features are here because many people asked for them):
Time stretching – I think that we actually may be wrong about this one. It takes time and/or money to be implemented (if you want it to be good). And if it’s not good, what’s the point? I’m writing this because someone said:”Any simple algorithm would be fine.” That is simply not true.
Almost the same goes for dithering. I haven’t used dithering in any DAW for years – a good mastering limiter or wave editor is much better choice for that task imo. I’m not saying that native dither in any DAW must be bad or worse than some other, just offering some other and maybe more common solutions.
Have you ever asked yourselves why SF now also have iZotope MBIT+Dither and iZotope 64 bit SRC (and they already had their own, very decent bit depth and sample rate converters)? Why did they add Zplane elastique time stretch pro plugin when they’d already had time stretch?
And if one wants “any” algorithm, there’re free wave editors that can do the trick, and can do it good.
Anyways, the point here is that Frits has never implemented something of low quality in Podium, AFAIK, and now is for sure not the good time to start doing that.
What I think (and I may be wrong) is that some people are after something like, lets say, Propellerhead Reason/Recycle when they’re talking not only about loops, real time time stretching, but also on the fly sample rate conversion and even pattern step sequencer which, btw, can’t find it’s place in Podium imo.
Now, why am I writing this? While I can in this very moment list 20 + features that (I think) I need, I can easily see myself getting the job done with only three features I listed added.
This for sure doesn’t mean that all must have features, including time stretching, dithering …. shouldn’t be implemented at some point. That only means that Podium is very, very close to the point when it can be considered a serious DAW and as good as any other on the market. For those who have been sleeping for the last couple of years – when we’re talking DAWs, everything’s gone as far as it gets – there’s a standard set of features that every DAW must have, and that’s it (and most of those features that Podium misses are listed in OP – the rest what should be done are small fixes and improvements).
@The Telenator wrote:
Say, while I’m here I wanted to mention that we seem to have a legion of silent readers at this forum. I first noticed it perhaps 6 months ago. Nary a trace of them, never a post I’m guessing. They are the Watchers, TheyWhoShallNotPost. They Who Must Only Use the Podium Secretly Late in the Lonely Night. Only record is that they can drive up a hit meter on a new thread into the thousands in no time and with seemingly no effort. Scary!!!
Scary? Might be. Disappointing and unfair, I would say.
1030 views – 6 responses. I really don’t believe this!
@Watchers
I somehow believe there must be many people among you who know something about DAWs. So, please select three features from OP that you miss in Podium most, because you are Podium users which means that you know this software and can say what you miss in it. Even if you don’t plan to ever become a licensed user, someone else can benefit from your suggestions. If you miss only one or two, write that. If you’re a newb and don’t know what certain feature is, ask, and it’ll be explained.
Cheers, Alex
adimatis@alex wrote:
Interesting…..
131 views – 5 replies. That means you can read. Can you also write?
I hope that was not a real question, but rather a point you wanted to make and came out in a wrong way…
You did not think that people might have checked the thread only to see if Frits have something to say or not… Lists with FR were done how many times. Yours is just the latest one, in three-four months someone else will start a new one! Maybe people just said it wnough times and they cannot be bothered to write it again, as the last 18 months of development brought very little if any satisfaction from this point of view.
I apreciate the initiative, but keep the expectations real. And do not be surprised to see people just reading. They can write. When they see a reason to do it.
In the meanwhile, there are options of course…
All the best!
PS: All the best to you all for the new year!
PS2: Oh yes, another point: I believe I also said that any simple time-stretch algo will do. Indeed, because how long ago Frits said he is working on something simple that will use the same algo as the actual zPitch plugin. Which, in most of the cases should do just fine. I mean, is way better to have a simple one that might not work all the time rather than none – right?
The TelenatorAlex wrote:
1030 views – 6 responses. I really don’t believe this!
Well, there’s just no accounting for taste, is there? I often attempt to work into my thread posts some cheeky, secondary entertainment value. Failing that, I can sometimes seem agitated and annoying, This, I suspect has been some of the reason for massive hit counts — They come seeking what it is everyone else has their knickers all in a bunch about, but then flee in near terror, seeing that certain ones such as myself are ‘at it again’. Of course, we could speculate all day long, so I won’t.
I’ve mentioned it, yet unsure if anyone has noticed, but my own Feature Requests have dwindled considerably. There are various causes for this, but it is not as some will suggest, because I’ve ‘learned to put up with it’ — being Podium’s lack of several features. I’ve gone about ‘fixing things’ in several ways, not the least of which being the purchase of a couple of smashing keyboard controllers, eliminating my peronal need for a virtual one in Podium.
Skipping ahead now, there have been a couple of items I’ve pushed for, more as a PR goal as much as badly needed, dithering falling squarely among them, although it saves trouble having one, and I will point out again that even freeware Audacity has its own professional quality dither and has for almost 4 years now. And any self-respecting DAW such too.
I have no hesitation to admit that there have been some features I’ve dutifully listed each time because I know their importance for Podium’s image sake and even more because I’ve known for a very long time how much dedicated Podium owners want them. More good PR in the end if implemented!
I’ll now skip right to my last point, comments of shock and awe (that entertainment value) regarding the large and most difficult feature of all — Time Stretching. And here you will be shocked to know the following; first, yes, even Audacity and Wavosaur have a bit of this. More importantly, many, many DAWs today have it, too. But here’s the shocker — it is a near-disaster in function on many or most of them. Here goes:
Studio One 2 was perhaps smartest of all and comes with Melodyne’s cheaper package bundled to it. I’d buy Studio One just to have the Melodyne, except that Studio One is butt-ugly, the colour I call ‘corpse gray’, their terminogy of engineering is half whacked, and I don’t care for any of the other plugins or other helps. Both Ableton and Bitwig cannot seem to get their respective acts together for long enough to release their next editions, so just forget them.
FL Studio (the people too embarrassed to refer to their DAW as ‘Fruit Loops’) has stretching, but sync’ed or no, look out!!! If you happen to insert or perhaps already have placed a tempo change within any region that is being stretched, your project will proceed to go haywire and come unravelled, and its almost certain you will never be able to pull it back together again.
Now, it matters none to me and many others what Reason has, because Reason is the DAW and Propellerhead the system that makes you buy all your plugins twice and won’t accept any freeware, since it will only take plugins that fit into Reason’s stupid ‘rack’ system. So forget them as well.
And who cares what Pro Tools uses. You can’t afford it anyway.
Now, some, including REAPER, have turned to using one or more types of elastique, which is licensed from Vielklang, the company that has become the very poor man’s answer to some Melodyne abilities and at roughly half the price. In my whole last year of owning REAPER alongside Podium have yet to use it even once. I tend to think about Time Stretching only when I’m reading about yet another REAPER owner who is having some kind of troubles with it. And the story carries on from about there.
Would I use it if it worked well in Podium? Why not? Do I want it in Podium? Who knows? Do I know how much more maths, coding, compiling, testing, and time and money this one feature would need to create it? You guessed correctly. Yet I will continue to list it on FR lists, because several want it badly, technically it could be done, and it is almost standard issue as of 2013. Personally, it is not within my recording style. I have other ways of ‘fixing things’ and creating bizarre sound events that relate back to songs such as “I Am the Walrus”. I would rather purchase a Melodyne Assistant or Editor package if I were to use those capabilities very much.
Sorry for such great length!
Cheers!
Tele
kim_otcjI actually gave up a DAW with good time stretching (Acid) to use Podium instead. These days, there are so many VST instruments that can generate interesting sounds in real time, I hardly ever find myself resorting to sample loops. And even when I do, I find that more and more loops are defaulting to a few common tempos, so I rarely need to stretch even then. Maybe loops are getting a bit old-hat these days.
alexadimatis,
Regarding your first remark …. well, even if it feels somewhat stupid to respond to something like that I’m still going to do that: It was a rhetorical question.
Now i don’t really understand what you were worried about. Was you worried about me thinking that I was stupid enough to think that people who could read couldn’t write? Or, maybe you thought that I’d somehow offended somebody? Let me tell you something. That can be only your problem, because there’s a lot of people in this World who can’t write and they are not worse than the others who can. BTW, do you think that people who can’t write or read sheet music are worse musicians than the others who can? If you do, you’re terribly wrong.
On the other hand you’ve proved you don’t read posts to the end. At least you didn’t read this OP, since you listed, don’t know how many features, when you were kindly asked to select only three from the list 😈
Now, about your beloved Time stretching (and I think this was the real reason you made a post (might be wrong, though)):
I’m obviously not a native English speaker and sometimes it’s hard for me to make my point. This time I used SF, Reason and whatnot (even your statement (not knowing it was yours)) in order to explain some things about time stretching. And, maybe I failed to do that (the right way). Luckily, The Telenator finished my sloppy work and explained everything excellently.
To keep it short – right to your question:
@adimatis wrote:
I mean, is way better to have a simple one that might not work all the time rather than none – right?
No, it’s not. It’s absolutely wrong.
I don’t have anything against time stretching. Do I really need it and would I use it? Honestly, I don’t know. But if you ask me if it should be implemented in Podium the answer is – absolutely yes. And the same goes for many features: Dithering – don’t need, qwerty keyboard as midi controller – I need a real, full range keyboard for my work, Support for more file formats (mp3, flac etc) – don’t need…….. Should they all be implemented? Oh yeah, everybody knows why.
@adimatis wrote:
..
You did not think that people might have checked the thread only to see if Frits have something to say or not… Lists with FR were done how many times. Yours is just the latest one, in three-four months someone else will start a new one! Maybe people just said it wnough times and they cannot be bothered to write it again, as the last 18 months of development brought very little if any satisfaction from this point of view.
Now you’re talking. I actually don’t expect those 20-30 forum members to post this time (and at the end most of them will do it and everything is going to be the same one more time), they have already done it several times. I somehow hoped that some new users would post and show there’re some other people who would like to see and use a new, improved version of Podium.
@alex wrote:
@Sobaca and Telenator
First, I want to wish you two and all other Podium users a happy, musical New Year!
Should I make a Poll and ask everybody to vote for only one (or three) most wanted features? Will Frits read that at all? And if he does, will he consider doing something about it?@Zynewave wrote:
Happy new year!
Go on and make the poll. The poll system only allows one vote per topic though….
You see, this was the real reason for me to make this thread. A lot of users, including myself said so many times Frits didn’t care about FRs. Well, it seems he cares. It also seems that he knew something I didn’t know (payed attention to) until now, and that’s how many people actually have FRs. And of course, he knows how many licenses he sells. O.K. even the hit meter on this and similar threads may be showing that people are interested in Podium. I can only guess. His idea to develop mobile Podium and target kids with phones and tablets could turn out not to be bad, after all (of course he will not be alone on the market and Podium for sure needs some improvements anyway). I already said I didn’t like that idea (and I never will). The funny thing is that now, out of blue I have to make a mobile studio – I bought a lap top, I have two small interfaces I can choose from and headphones and all I need to do is to buy a pair of small reference monitors (and if I already have to take three guitars and two amps on the road, I’ll also take the keyboard).
@Zynewave wrote:
.
No matter how good I make Podium, professional studios will never dare taking the risk of using a one-man created DAW as the cornerstone software of their studio.
Well, I must disagree here. I don’t really know what he means when he says “professional studios”, but if that’s the studio with control and live rooms or even an online studio that actually makes money by recording and mixing music I have to tell him that many people that I know have already switched or are planning to switch to REAPER from whatever they’ve used before. So, I don’t see why Podium couldn’t also be an option, after the needed features have been implemented (but I obviously don’t see many things).
@adimatis wrote:
I apreciate the initiative, but keep the expectations real. And do not be surprised to see people just reading. They can write. When they see a reason to do it.
Nobody tells me what to do!!!
You see, your words could also “come out in a wrong way” 😉
All the best to you too!
Sorry about the long post.
Cheers, Alex
adimatis@alex wrote:
Nobody tells me what to do!!!
Man, that ego!… What would be the world without it?
Alex, you’re what 18-20? It seems to me you’re a bit unexperienced and just a little bit over excited as well. Calm down and please, try to understand what is all about before you jump to conclusions.
Because you’re 1st language is not english, as is not mine, I understand you’re limited in expression and understanding, just as am I. But my first line was legitimate: why on earth do you think people should even write here at all? Because YOU came out with yet another thread about the old stupid Feature Request list? I am so tired about this that I will probably have this as my last post about it. Can’t you see? You can bring up a million feature requests – but in the end Frits will decide when and what he’ll do. I am sorry to say it, he did none of these requests for years. Do you think he (or we) need another tousand posts thread to clearify this? No. He knows what the users want (eventhough some may change) but he chooses to postpone the implementation. Fine.
And no, I do not believe only those who can read music can play music. O record. I do not read music as well. And yes, your rethorical question was offending for the reason I mentioned above.
I do read all the post before posting. In all forums I am. And to make things easier for you, I will type in letters only first three FR I have:
1. Time Streching
2. Support for mp3, rex, etc
3. MIDI Routing
Happy now? I am suuuure that made a huge difference for clearifying thigs! 🙄 Now finally the future development of Podium has it right! 😆 (That was an irony to self, don’t jump.)
“My beloved” time-stretching? Are you for real? This is probably the single oldest FR on the forums accompanied by a promise from Frits that will be done. I do not remember, but if you’re curious, do a search on archives. And on this issue, you seem to really miss the point: a simple “non-professional” alghoritm that will allow the user to increase/decrease by 5-7% might sufice for many, me included. Frits said he is on something, but never happened. And why wouldn’t this be ok? Is it better you don’t have it AT ALL? If you have it not good enough for you’re use, don’t use it! Use something more suitable for you – but give me “my” simple TS that will make me happy. Especially since you said you do not care much about this particular FR…
You seems to be so picky about these alghoritms. It’s like we’re talking super professional studios here! Wake-up, you’re using a 50$ piece of software (that could have become indeed a serious player a while ago) that already offers alot for the money. What, you’d be ready to ask for zplane elastique into Podium, which will kill Zynewave or make the cost of Podium double?! If you wanted and could afford it, go and get a full featured DAW. A complete one. Get Reaper.
By all means, ask for the best into Podium, but can we have it this life-time, please?!…
As I said if before many times, I LOVE Podium for what it is and especially for what it could become. I was extremelly excited about using it and I did A FAIR AMOUNT OF WORK with it. For simple jobs, it is perfectly fine, but once you’re deeper into production and arrangements, when you need to combine MIDI with audio and loops, the limitations are more obvious. Some user, and you Alex might be one of them, can do with these limitations and they do great work – check Dan’s productions – but I am not really one of those happy ones.
I hope you will not take any of the remarks too personally. Me, just as you, would like to see a better Podium, but some of us (me) can not forever wait for things to happen.
I do check the posts pretty much everyday on this forum. It’s almost like nicotine – takes a while to het it out of your system. 🙂