Zynewave.
PiginiRecently I watched some videos showcasing a virtual console/recording app. (sam-c, you know which 😉 )
That app has no time/pitch-shifting/stretching algo built in, but supports directx plugins. In the video the guy did time/pitch-shifting/stretching with a directx plug that comes with soundforge!!!!
I thought, what a blazing idea!!! One would need soundforge, but many might own thatone already, even an old version might do. I don’t know when time/pitch-shifting/stretching got included into it or how good it is. But for all the guys wanting it so badly, that might be the quickest and most realistic way to get such an algo into podium.
Now, we would only need directx plugin support in podium.
Frits, isn’t that much simpler than licensing an algo or coding one???
Additionally one would get all kinds of additional directx-plugins which get installed with other apps.
I remember vaguely having read that directx plugins in some aspects even have advantages over the vst principle, but can’t remember what exactly it was.
Great principle – supporting as many formats as possible, makes available so much what others have done already.
coming to think of it. Errrmmh, how about mfx …??? 😉
acousmodDid it work on tracks or as a processing like in an audio editor ?
I’ve never seen DirectX timestretching working on audio events in a multitrack software…
What we need more is an “external editor” feature which allow to process selections in Soundforge or others without having to quit and restart Podium !
And DirectX is now a dead format…
By the way, the Sonic Foundry algo has not evolved since a lot of years, and is a very basic one. When Frits will work on it he will have no difficulty to make a better one !
I don’t know of course at what point he is actually in the algo coding, but the zPitch plugin is already really good.
So I suppose that the main work to do is how to integrate it in the playback engine, making the menus etc…
I have no doubt that it will pop up soon 😉
If I remember well it was planned for last summer.
PiginiDid it work on tracks or as a processing like in an audio editor ?
Realtime. Assigned to the output master, it processed 12 Mix-track.
You can watch it yourself, it’s on the 12th min of that video:
http://www.sawstudio-media.com/video/SAWStudioBasic.wmv
What we need more is an “external editor” feature which allow to process selections in Soundforge or others without having to quit and restart Podium !
That’s a another good idea, it could be good for many things. Though on second thought, it could clash with the way podium handles audio (some operations being destructive, others nondestructive, external editing could mess things up in an unpredictable way).
And DirectX is now a dead format…
..and soon vst2 will no longer be supported in progs from the big guys. They want to force ppl having to buy everything again. All just for marketing reasons. Do you think vst3 plugs will be better? They are selling the same algos again in another format.
If a program supports many formats of which many ppl already own quality plugins, I see that as an advantage. Many might even switch from cubase to the small company apps like podium, because of that. The directx format itself is not bad, f.e. waves plugins are directx with a vst-wrapper.
By the way, the Sonic Foundry algo has not evolved since a lot of years, and is a very basic one.
I don’t use Sonic Foundry and don’t know its timestretch plug, can’t say anything about its quality. Just picked up that idea from the vid. Maybe it’s simple and that is the reason why it even can work in realtime.
I personally can do without that shifting stuff. But many here seem to be wanting it, some of them obviously want to use it for effects, where quality would not matter so much anyway.
But aside from that shifting/stretching thing, I think supporting as many formats as possible would pay out for podium overall.
For the simple reason that it allows better use of what one already has and might want to use in podium.
acousmodRealtime. Assigned to the output master, it processed 12 Mix-track.
You can watch it yourself, it’s on the 12th min of that video:
http://www.sawstudio-media.com/video/SAWStudioBasic.wmv
It is what i guessed : it is a global processing of all the mix, not an event base. It is similar to bouncing an arrangement and processing it in an audio editor.
Though on second thought, it could clash with the way podium handles audio (some operations being destructive, others nondestructive, external editing could mess things up in an unpredictable way).
Yes, it is the way how people work !
By the way, the integrated destructive audio editor in Podium is excellent. With only a few more features we could avoid using an external one.
I really hope that it will evolve at some point. This will be a great value for Podium (and something that Reaper does not have !).
The directx format itself is not bad, f.e. waves plugins are directx with a vst-wrapper.
I think supporting as many formats as possible would pay out for podium overall.
For the simple reason that it allows better use of what one already has and might want to use in podium.
Of course.
The problem is that there is no more improvements from Microsoft, and that hosts and users are progressively abandonning it. Perhaps that 2 or 3 years ago it could have been an advantage to support it ? But I think that it is too late now.
Honestly, I find it even a good thing to have only one plugin standard.
Look how it is on Mac OS, with the “war” between AU and VST formats !
It is not good for developpers nor for users, and it was like this before on Windows.
An open source format, as it has been discussed some time ago on KVR forums is another question…
Maybe it’s simple and that is the reason why it even can work in realtime.
Yes, but today much more powerful algos work in realtime too.
But that is not the question…
I personally can do without that shifting stuff. But many here seem to be wanting it, some of them obviously want to use it for effects, where quality would not matter so much anyway.
That’s my case 😉
In this domain, quality is a very relative concept. All we can say is that some algos and some settings fit more or less with some kind of sounds and some purposes.
I have been so used to have it since years in Samplitude or Vegas that not having the possibility to simply adjust the speed or the pitch of an audio segment is a constraint I will be glad to get rid of.
For special quality rendering it is always possible to process the files in other softwares. Look at the next Melodyne features !!! Nobody will be able to compete withy this.
Of course, a “good” algo, with enough parameters to tweak will be appreciate.
I know that the Elastic one will certainly never be available in Podium due to its cost, but perhaps that Frits will provide the free limited version of Dirac together with its personal one ?
All of this is pure speculation since Frits has not commented about this questions.
PiginiI have been so used to have it since years in Samplitude or Vegas that not having the possibility to simply adjust the speed or the pitch of an audio segment is a constraint I will be glad to get rid of.
Isn’t the algo in vegas the very same as the one in soundforge? ( It’s from the same company, so it’s very likely. A.F.A.I.K. it was the same when it belonged to sonicfoundry.)
For special quality rendering it is always possible to process the files in other softwares. Look at the next Melodyne features !!! Nobody will be able to compete withy this.
Key features available as a melodyne vst plugin now! Good solution. Everyone wanting quality pitch/time-stretching/shifting can spend his own money on it, instead of expecting it in a soft around the 100$ mark.
For ppl only wanting a basic editor-like stretching solution either directx-integration or finding another cheaper vst plug might do the trick.
If however, an integration of audio and midi with the timeline in podium (like adjusting audio data to new tempos) was wanted, plugin solutions could not deliver the whole thing and podium would need to have the algo integrated differently(directly in the app). Which, for everyone who’s picky about artifacts in the audio, is of no use for anything but very small changes. (Can’t resist mentioning it again. 😉 )
acousmodIsn’t the algo in vegas the very same as the one in soundforge? ( It’s from the same company, so it’s very likely. A.F.A.I.K. it was the same when it belonged to sonicfoundry.)
Yes, exactly the same.
Better than nothing 😉
Which, for everyone who’s picky about artifacts in the audio, is of no use for anything but very small changes. (Can’t resist mentioning it again).
I agree ! Personnaly, if I had to do “normal” music with acoustic instruments, I think that I will never use such effects, it’s better to play at the good speed.
And for MIDI there is no problem at all…
I am mainly concerned by simple speed variation, that is very simple to implement. So most of the time I don’t really care of the timestretching quality.
ZynewaveAs acousmod said, directx seems to be a dead format. Development of the format is discontinued, and Steinberg recently dropped support for DirectX in the new versions of their products.
A major reason why I made the zPitch plugin was to test what kind of quality I could get with my own time-stretching implementation. So I have the basic DSP code needed for the implementation. I just need to find the time to integrate it into the UI.