kingtubby.
The TelenatorGreetings all,
I had previously tested Phrazor, the VSTi/VST/Standalone ‘mini-host’ plugin, extensively back in my Cubase days, then retested all after moving it to REAPER and all was fine. So imagine my great disappointment when I loaded it into Podium today and nothing works. Oh, yes, Podium accepts it as both an effect VST and as an instrument VSTi, and gives the appearance of loading without issue when placed on a track.
However, in either case, when I open the GUI for Phrazor all I get is a black, shiny screen in its box, with a few numbers stacked in the corner.
I should mention at this point that — looking internally at Phrazor — all three versions of it are really the exact same binary, yet with some options changed in each, much like we can re-define a VSTi as a VST in Podium by checking the ‘accept note input’ box. Also, just for reference, I am using the beta Preview 7 version of Phrazor, which is the last full version they released before closing up shop. I suggest if you are ever interested in using this software, be sure to avoid the other version that is also still floating around the Net. It is a demo version and hobbled in various regards.
Phrazor is a wonderful and powerful design. It has always worked bug-free in all other situations, and I was totally unprepared for Podium to refuse to cooperate with it. If anyone knows a solution or has any suggestions, I would love to hear them. I am always looking for a better virtual keyboard for Podium that won’t require I record blind or freeze up the host when I use it. Not only does Phrazor allow a keyboard inside it with any MIDI instruments plugged into it, but it also will capture the qwerty keyboard of your PC, so ultimately I don’t even need to include one in Phrazor.
This is yet another example of an unusual build of plugin that causes Podium to pitch some kind of FIT. All the many normal plugins, whether instruments or effects, have always done fine with Podium. But I NEED a stinking keyboard that works without issue, and I would like a few other capabilities, and this is where a gadget like Phrazor could have solved the entire problem.
Yes, so I’m bummed tonight. I think Zynewave could learn quite a bit just from reading Phrazor’s manual: It not only is a breeze to use and fast to set up any project, once you know how it works, but it also allows for unrestricted audio and MIDI routing (it treats these pretty equally throughout), AND it will let you load up to some 8 instruments and sum their output as you choose. Try the standalone version sometime. I don’t understand why that bunch went out of business, because Phrazor is a true gem. Fortunately, a full-performing version of it is freely still available at sites such as KVR and others.
In any case, if some goofy, relatively unknown plugin/mini-host thing like Phrazor can do all it does (not to mention free), then I simply can’t understand why any digital audio workstation can’t do the same or more. I’m confused.
kingtubbyDo you just want a (free) midi keyboard plugin? If so, there are a few available out there. Here’s one:
http://thepiz.org/plugins/?p=midiKeyboard
I haven’t tried it in Podium for quite a while but Phrazor was/is an awesome – if unfinished – app. But as it is unfinished I can’t see Frits making any efforts to get it working in Podium. Also, Phrazor certainly wouldn’t have been free had it been completed.
Regarding SonicBytes, the Phrazor dev, it was just one guy who got talent spotted by Native Instruments and went to work for them. His other products were top-notch midi sequencer plugins called Era and Est which were taken on by SugarBytes and can still be purchased through them.
The TelenatorFunny you should mention that particular keyboard, because it is the only one I’ve found of the 4 or 5 I’ve tried that will work in Podium without freezing or crashing the host. The only problem with it is that I can’t attach an instrument to the track to hear the MIDI I’m recording! If I define it as an effect (VST), then that’s no good because Podium does not accept effects added to MIDI during recording; it only allows for them after the track has been bounced. If I leave it as a VST instrument (VSTi, as it originally installs), then I can use it on a track to record MIDI, just as I mentioned, but then it hogs the instrument slot on the track and no ‘sound-rendering’ VSTi can be used, thus I must record ‘blind,’ which is utter nonsense and totally unacceptable.
There are other keyboards, most notable of the lot being VirtualMidiKeyboard3 and Bome’s, but Podium won’t have any of it. Most of them are a better designs than the one we mentioned above. I ran Little Piano 32 into Podium a couple of times via MidiYoke long ago, but if I recall that had the same ‘blind’ issue or else some other problem that put me off it.
Regarding Phrazor, it is about as ‘finished’ as we might call any audio software. He was planning further updates just like any mindful dev, but there was nothing wrong with it as is. The release of the beta Preview 7 came because SonicBytes was closing it down, so they dumped it on the market. Perhaps it didn’t sell — I can only guess about the reasoning. The only thing slated as the next update to it was to be an extra ‘manager’ function, which has had me puzzled as to what it might manage and why it might be included. As it is, Phrazor seems completely bug-free throughout, at least as I am still able to use it in the standalone mode, and it does all the things it needs to do.
I wasn’t suggesting Zynewave make any special accommodations for this or ANY ONE plugin. By no means. But what I am saying plainly — or at least was trying to say — is that I have been attempting to build workarounds for several of Podium’s missing features, the keyboard being only one of them, and it is beginning to appear AT EVERY TURN that Podium is pitching a fit with all of these efforts. This is rather frustrating.
One thing that could be straightened out is this ‘source’ concept on the tracks. Look, MIDI comes in or MIDI goes out. I’m afraid that all there is to it in the working world of audio. Now, let’s get that proper AND let it happen. THEN, we ought to be able to employ any of the half dozen virtual cables out there, both free and paid-for variety. At that point, no one here would be harping about MIDI routing because we’d all be able to do our own, like the rest of the real world. My goodness, it could be just like in the real world! Tell my why I can’t MIDI cable out of one track and then plug into another. Tell me why I can’t easily cable into Podium from any other decent software. ‘Source’ is a misnomer — it should say in that box slot, “Plug in a hardware keyboard right here or hit the highway, buddy.”
I finally found my notes on my former trials with Phrazor. It turns out that I didn’t bother to try it with REAPER (probably because that DAW already contains all those features), but instead used it with a Cubase 4 and my son’s system.
Finally, and since I mentioned Cubase, it took Steinberg a year and demanding too much money for bug-filled upgrades and some truly nasty customer relations on their and their forum’s part before I told them where they could place their product, so my concern today with Podium will in no way send me bailing.
But I am seriously beginning to question all this talk of pie-in-the-sky compatibility with tablet computers or any further large projects when there is so much work left undone in bringing this software ‘up to snuff’ with what’s standard now on practically all the others (and I have been researching this issue lately).
kingtubbyWell yeah, as you’re probably aware midi routing in Podium is a long time and much requested feature which I can only assume is not an easy addition bearing in mind how long it’s taken to surface.
Programming is pretty much a mystery to me, but perhaps there is something about the base structure of Podium that isn’t conducive to this kind of implementation…I dunno?