Podianer.
PodianerHi Frits,
I want to try the demo of Hydratone in Podium. It’s an EQ Plugin. When mapping it to a track, podium gives the following error message:
“a plugin as performed an illegal action:
Cycling 74 – Hydratone (Hydratone.dll)…..”
When trying to create a preset of the plugin, it says, that it is too big for Podium. In Tracktion and Cubase this plug works fine.
Do you have an idea?
Thanks,
Max
P.S. Any hint on what feature you are working on? I’m always interested in what you bring to us next! 😆
MaxCycling 74? Seems that Pluggo runtime needs to be installed. Did you installed it?
Podianeryes! Otherwise it wouldn’t have worked in Cubase..
Max
ZynewaveI downloaded both the Pluggo runtime and Hydratone. Installed Pluggo in my Vstplugins folder and installed Hydratone inside the ‘VstpluginsPluggo runtime’ folder, as instructed. Hydratone works fine. I cannot get it to crash.
acousmodHi,
I don’t know if there is a connexion, but some of my plugins (SpatPod for example) give exactly the same problem since a few months on my P4HT.
They worked perfectly before (I can’t tell a date, perhaps with the 1.40 version ?) and have no problem on my laptop (Centrino) with the same versions of Podium.
If I limit Podium to one “processor” on the P4HT I can generally use the plugs.
I thought that it was due to something in my plugs, so I’ve searched but found nothing that explain why some are well working and some not.
The problem occurs of course only in Podium.
The message is often : “Cannot store preset data from plugin. The reported size of 0 Mb is beyond the limit allowed in Podium” (sometimes other values like 6 Mb or 8 Mb).
Another case, with exactly the same project and plugins, is that Podium crashes and quit when I active the engine, or a window opens and says that “A plugin has performed an illegal action. This may have caused memory corruption in Podium”. When I click on the debug button Podium simply quits.
ZynewaveI’ve now also tried multiple instances of Hydratone, in case it was related to multiprocessing. Still no crash.
but some of my plugins (SpatPod for example) give exactly the same problem since a few months on my P4HT.
They worked perfectly before (I can’t tell a date, perhaps with the 1.40 version ?) and have no problem on my laptop (Centrino) with the same versions of Podium.
If I limit Podium to one “processor” on the P4HT I can generally use the plugs.
I know that e.g. the Lallapallooza plugin (Synthedit creation) used in the Freebees project will crash easily if more than one instance is used with multiprocessing. That’s one of the reasons why I have it as high priority to create alternative demo projects with Zynewave plugins. It may be a problem with Synthedit (Lallapallooza is using a very old Synthedit version), or it may be something in the plugin schematic that causes the crash.
The message is often : “Cannot store preset data from plugin. The reported size of 0 Mb is beyond the limit allowed in Podium” (sometimes other values like 6 Mb or 8 Mb).
This message typically occurs after the plugin has crashed, which is why Podium cannot retrieve the presets.
acousmodIt may be a problem with Synthedit (Lallapallooza is using a very old Synthedit version), or it may be something in the plugin schematic that causes the crash.
Yes, it is what I supposed too.
I’ve tried with some versions that used to work, like the SpatPod, but I can’t use it anymore in Podium on my P4HT until I deactivate one thread (and sometimes it even crash).
I’ve recompiled it with the last Synthedit versions : no change.
More curious is that some plugins that use the same base shematics run fine.
I’ve also made a test with a simpler one, which don’t use any third party module and it crashs also. Others with the same elements and more complicated have no problem.
There is certainly something between Synthedit and Podium, since absolutely no other host has this problem, but I have not discovered any constant cause, so I’ve abandonned for now. It is why I didn’t bothered you with this sooner :wink:.
Podianer’s post has made me think that the problem is perhaps not completely Synthedit relative, so I had some hope to be a solution.
It’s not a urgent problem for me, since I work on other things while waiting for the “meta event” that will allow synchronization of automation events in Podium 😛
ZynewaveThere is certainly something between Synthedit and Podium, since absolutely no other host has this problem, but I have not discovered any constant cause
Which other hosts have you tried that support multiprocessing? The problem I mentioned with Lallapallooza will only occur if the host runs multiple instances of the plugin on different CPUs.
acousmodWhich other hosts have you tried that support multiprocessing? The problem I mentioned with Lallapallooza will only occur if the host runs multiple instances of the plugin on different CPUs.
AudioMulch, Bidule, EnergyXT, Nuendo, Tracktion.
I can’t say how they use the two “processors” but they both show activity in these programs.
I have also a plugin which has a real problem with multiprocessing, and when I switch EnergyXT, Bidule or Audiomulch to one thread only there is no more problem with this plugin.
So I suppose that they use the two processors, perhaps that it is not “true multiprocessing” ?
The SpatPod, for example, runs fine in all these programs with several instances, but makes Podium crash.
Can you make a test ?
Perhaps is it also computer dependant ?
I have made some new tests because there is some time that I have not look at this :
– the crash occurs as soon as the engine is activated nearly at each time, but sometimes it can run fine
– the messages are not exatcly the same (see first post)
– if I deactivate one thread for Podium, the plugin doesn’t generally make Podium crash, but some time it does
– the crash occurs when there is several instances of the plugin but also some times with only one instance
– I’ve used the same build of the plugin last year, on the same computer, without any problem
– it doesn’t seem to be related to the date of the build and the version of Synthedit
– there is obviously something in the plugins that causes the problem, but I haven’t found anything logical
I don’t know if this will help ?
As I have said before, don’t waste time on this if it is the only case of such a problem, there are other things more important…
Cheers.
ZynewaveAudioMulch, Bidule, EnergyXT, Nuendo, Tracktion.
I don’t know how AudioMulch, Bidule and Nuendo handles multiprocessing. Tracktion does not support multiprocessing of plugins. The audio thread runs on a single CPU, so plugins will never be processed in parallel. The other CPU will be used for the GUI and possibly disk access etc. Based on the last description I read about EnergyXT, you have to select which CPU core a particular plugin should use. So you need to set up two instances of the plugin and configure them for different CPU cores.
The crash problem occurs when multiple CPUs simultaneously calls the processing for multiple instances of a plugin. Some plugins stores data in global memory that are shared between instances of a plugin. In single CPU execution this is not a problem because one plugin instance completes its processing before the next start. With multiple CPUs calling the same code, there can be conflicts when accessing the global data.
Furthermore for two instances to be processed simultaneously they have to be routed in a way where they both can process input simultaneously. The processing of other plugins can also influence the timing of the simultaneous processing, so that is why the crashes may appear random.
acousmodThank you for these explainations.
Do you think about something that could be done in the plugins to limit or avoid this ?
Those which work and those which crash are very very similar…
ZynewaveDo you think about something that could be done in the plugins to limit or avoid this ?
I don’t have any experience with design in SynthEdit, so I don’t have any tips for that.
acousmodHi,
The problem is far ennoying that I thought : I’ve opened the project which I have made last year and… crash !
In fact, all my plugins make nearly always Podium crashing when there is more than one instance and Podium runs with the two “CPU” of the P4HT.
I’ve ended this project in october, so do you think that something has changed in Podium’s code since this date ?
Or could it be something on my computer that makes this happend ?
I’ve never had a single crash due to my plugins, on this computer, before january or february (I didn’t remember).
Nothing has changed in the hardware.
I have made some tests to try to know how the CPUs are used with some combinations and plugins, to try to learn if there is a way to avoid this problem.
For example, with an instrument plugin, with a lot of controls of parameters :
– Podium : it takes only one processor, +/- 30% (CPU load value in Podium 50 to 70%)
– Audiomulch : takes one processor, +/- 26%
– Nuendo 2 : takes one processor, +/- 30%
Other effect plugin :
– Podium : 2 processors, +/- 55% (CPU load value in Podium +/- 36%)
– Audiomulch : one processor, +/- 30%
Thoses last values looks strange for me, but there is certainly an explaination ?
Several instances can run without problem except in Podium WHEN THE ENGINE STARTS.
If I add instances of the plugins WHILE the Podium’s engine is running, there is no problem, I can work with all of them.
But if I shut down the engine and restart it : crash…
Does this help ?
Thanks.
ZynewaveI’ve ended this project in october, so do you think that something has changed in Podium’s code since this date ?
I don’t recall changing anything related to multiprocessing.
Several instances can run without problem except in Podium WHEN THE ENGINE STARTS.
If I add instances of the plugins WHILE the Podium’s engine is running, there is no problem, I can work with all of them.
But if I shut down the engine and restart it : crash…
Does this help ?
When the engine starts there is a lot of initialization calls being made to the plugins (presets recalled etc.). Plugins often delay some of the initialization to the next audio process call, and thus it is more likely that a crash occur on startup because multiple instances try to do initialization simultaneously. When you add a plugin once the engine is running, only that plugin is initialized and thus is less likely to conflict with already running instances.
If you disable the ‘multiprocessing’ option on the audio page in the preferences dialog, does the crashes still occur?
xis23hmm funny timing, didn’t know about this post but i demoed hydratone only yesterday and found it crashed too, no error message, just a continuing clicking sound… like when the audio gets caught in a split second loop of i guess whatever is buffered, i don’t know. But anyhow did it for me by enabling/disabling it with the ‘x’ icon… i get the same thing (albeit less frequently) with voxengo curve eq too, which also seems a bit sensitive to rearringing things in the chain above/below it…. i just decided to avoid them in the end since other plugs work fine… i too am pentium 4 with hyper threading… oh i almost forget, 2 instances of ugo string theory don’t get on very well either…
does hyperthreading offer that much of an advantage or would I be best off disabling it for the time being? if i disable multiprocessing in podium without disabling hyperthreading of the actual processor, would that be only utilising half of my cpu?