Podianer.
Zynewavedoes hyperthreading offer that much of an advantage or would I be best off disabling it for the time being? if i disable multiprocessing in podium without disabling hyperthreading of the actual processor, would that be only utilising half of my cpu?
Try just disabling the ‘multiprocessing’ option in Podium preferences. This will restrict the audio/plugin processing to one processor. You’ll still be able to benefit from HT though, since e.g. GUI and disk access can run on the other processor.
xis23ahh ok well i figure i will just avoid plugins that crash for now anyway and keep it enabled since i like having the power avaiable, maybe their developers just aren’t ready for multiprocessing yet!
acousmodIf you disable the ‘multiprocessing’ option on the audio page in the preferences dialog, does the crashes still occur?
No, happily.
It is also possible to mute the plugs when starting the engine and unmute them after : in this manner they can work in “full multiprocessing”… but it is not very funny to do.
xis 23 : it may be a solution for you if you want nevertheless to use plugins which may crash otherwise ?
maybe their developers just aren’t ready for multiprocessing yet!
Maybe would it be possible to give the possibility to handle multiprocessing in an alternative way, for both compatibility and performances ?
For example, if we have two plugins running each on one processor is it worst that if both of them are running on the two ?
Do you know if some hosts make this kind of dynamic allocation of plugins, each on one processor/thread, instead of spreading them across all processors ?
ConquistadorI have a Pentium D and use multiprocessing all the time in Podium. I do think xis23 may have a point…
maybe their developers just aren’t ready for multiprocessing yet!
While the whole issue of mulitprocessing hosts and plugs (Disco DSP for isntance) is no doubt a very wide and deep one, from a developers perspective, I do think hosts like Podium offer the environment for mulitprocessing but it is just possibly the plugin developers that are still -playing catch up with this new technology.
To give an example, the only VSTi’s that actually have dual core procesing built in are Kontakt 2 and Disco DSP (latest version) maybe more now?
So while current plugs should work fine in hosts like Podium that support more than one processor, there may very well be a bit of lag between host developers waiting for true mulitprocessing plugs that can take full advantage of mulitprocessing properly.
FWIW I read on KVR the other day that Hydrotone plugs were losing their activated status after being properly authourised anyway, as in reverting back to demo status. I am sure I read about the clicking sound as well on KVR.
Maybe thats fixed now and not a problem for all no doubt, but there had been some issues with the plugs in other hosts so I think Podium is probably not really to blame here.
Just guessing of course regarding the real cause of the problems, but issues have surfaced in other hosts with Hydrotone plugs.
acousmodIt seems that Nuendo (and Cubase) handle the multiprocessing in a similar manner as Podium :
“· In the default, “regular” multi-processing mode (Advanced Multi-Processing deactivated), the complete audio engine, including all mixing and effects, runs on one processor, while the other processor is responsible for all other activities (user interface, MIDI tasks, file handling, system tasks, etc.).
Note that this means that the maximum processing power available to the audio engine is still 1 CPU, since the complete audio process runs on a single processor.
· When Advanced Multi-Processing is activated, the audio engine tasks will be distributed to both processors.
Still one processor is doing the MIDI, file handling and user interface, but its remaining processor bandwidth can be used for audio tasks. Since the audio engine is usually the task that requires the most processor time, Advanced Multi-Processing can be much more performance efficient than “regular” multi-processing. “
But for me, no crash in Nuendo with the same plugins…
Zynewave@acousmod wrote:
If you disable the ‘multiprocessing’ option on the audio page in the preferences dialog, does the crashes still occur?
No, happily.
I’ll recommend that you disable the Podium multiprocessing option then. I just tried debugging the Lallapallooza (synthedit) multiprocessing crash I mentioned earlier in this topic, and as I expected it occurs in the plugin audio process function. I tried disabling parameter automation and even preset recall, but the crash would still occur at random but still frequently. There are many pitfalls in proper multiprocessing support. The instability is very much dependent on the timing of the calls into the multiple instances of the plugins. This is why you can experience that Nuendo does not crash your plugin, because it may do things in a different order than Podium does. Likewise you may encounter plugins that will crash in Nuendo and not in Podium.
acousmodThanks again Frits for taking time to give these explainations.
As I have told you, it is not a big problem actually since I do the main processings outside of Podium, all I need is to be able to do montage / mixing, with some kind of “matrix” plugins which do not present this problem.
When I need some others it is simple to turn off the multiprocessing.
Especially with a HT processor, the difference is not huge…
I will try nevertheless to find if there is something to change in the processing of some plugins, for when I will afford to buy a true dual core computer 😉 .
acousmodSince all the plugins which are based on the distance calculation had the problem with multiprocessing in Podium, I have tried to find what was the reason.
I’ve slightly changed the method in the distance calculation formula, a Max object by a Limit, and it seems that now the plugins have no more problem.
Can somebody that have a dual processor (I have only a HT) make a try to confirm ?
You can try with several instances of the SpatPod : http://acousmodules.free.fr/fichiers/surround/SpatPod5.1.rar
Thanks !
Conquistador@acousmod wrote:
Since all the plugins which are based on the distance calculation had the problem with multiprocessing in Podium, I have tried to find what was the reason.
I’ve slightly changed the method in the distance calculation formula, a Max object by a Limit, and it seems that now the plugins have no more problem.Can somebody that have a dual processor (I have only a HT) make a try to confirm ?
You can try with several instances of the SpatPod : http://acousmodules.free.fr/fichiers/surround/SpatPod5.1.rarThanks !
Go on then…I have a Pentium D, what exactly do you want me to look for?
ZynewaveCan somebody that have a dual processor (I have only a HT) make a try to confirm ?
I tested it on my Pentium D system. When loading the plugin it displays several warning messages about unregistered Synthedit modules. After dismissing the dialogs, I added two instances of the plugin to the surround example project. I encountered no problems. I recorded automation by dragging the “donuts” 😛 and playback was ok.
acousmodGo on then…I have a Pentium D, what exactly do you want me to look for?
Oh, just open several instances of the plug and run Podium with the multiprocessing option activated.
When loading the plugin it displays several warning messages about unregistered Synthedit modules.
Thanks, corrected now.
I added two instances of the plugin to the surround example project. I encountered no problems. I recorded automation by dragging the “donuts” Razz and playback was ok.
Thanks for the try.
So I suppose that I just have now to change the element in all the plugs et voilà !
How strange is computing…..
Conquistador@acousmod wrote:
Oh, just open several instances of the plug and run Podium with the multiprocessing option activated.
No problems here either. Although I firmly disagree with Frits doughnout description. 🙂 I think hollow sweets fits the bill a bit better! I had plenty of fun just dragging them around and there was no sugar trail effect when dragging, so the doughnut theory thing for me just does not hold up at all. 8) 🙂
Either way acousmod, from two quick tests at least two people agree that there is a somewhat tasty aspect to your spatpod plug in 😆
xis23So does this mean that it is only hyper-threading causing the problem, and real dual-core systems are generally fine?
ZynewaveSo does this mean that it is only hyper-threading causing the problem, and real dual-core systems are generally fine?
As I understand it, the latest version that Conquistador and I tested was working fine for Acousmod on his HT system. He just needed verification that it also worked on dual core systems.
acousmodAs I understand it, the latest version that Conquistador and I tested was working fine for Acousmod on his HT system. He just needed verification that it also worked on dual core systems.
Exact, thanks !