Topic: Idea: The DAW is a Sampler

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
  • November 10, 2009 at 19:58 #2069
    Mike G
    Participant

    Imagine…

    -I have a “special” group track in podium

    -I assign a midi input to this “special” group track

    -Each child track in my special group track …
    -maps to a MIDI note range
    -Has a wav file (Or “sample”) assigned to it with a simple envelope
    …In my imagination I see a collabsible area before the start of the track that I can drag my wav files on and set the fade in and fade out just as I would with any other audio track in podium.

    (I think you’d call one of these child tracks a “zone” if the DAW really was a sampler)

    -Now when I click record and play and start playing midi notes on my keyboard the DAW writes, not midi notes, actual audio clips, i.e. a clone of the “Sample” set up against the child track(s) for that midi note.

    (pause while you take that in!)

    …The fade in and fade out of the audio clip is set by the envelope I set up against the “sample” and the level of the audio clip set by the velocity, the length set by the time you held down the MIDI note.

    -When not in record mode, and I double click somewhere in the child track I create not an empty audio file but a clone of the “Sample” that I can then set the length, level and duration just like any normal audio clip. (Envelope defaults from the Sample setup)

    -Maybe I could do step recording like in midi too, maybe I could have quantise options too!!, Who knows…
    Main thing is MIDI notes don’t record as MIDI notes they write Audio clips in an audio track.

    Since child track “zones” are just audio tracks…
    -I can put vst insert effects in different zones as well as at the group level
    -I can add random other wav files in as I see fit
    -I can tweak the envolope and other settings of the audio clip, copy and paste etc…

    So far we have a DAW/Sampler hybrid that would make an excellent drum programming tool that combines the simplicity of wav files with the playability, flexibility and midi controller friendliness of a VST/MIDI track.

    I think to keep best of both “MIDI” and “Audio” worlds we would need a way of changing the “sample” assigned to a track and it updating all clones.

    We could enahance this further my adding pitch adjusting of samples based on midi note ranges, possibly even things like looping and all that.
    Also volocity switching of samples and/or randomisation of samples, sample groups (for hi hats).

    What do you think?

    Thanks to Nov CM pg 18 article and quote from shortcircuit developer for the inspiration.

    I know you’re always busy frits but just thought i’d post since I’d had the idea and I’ve got no idea of the scale of this feature in terms of programming work. If it is an original idea it might even be a nice unique selling point.

    Thanks,
    Mike G

    November 11, 2009 at 05:27 #16723
    LiquidProj3ct
    Participant

    I’d prefer see an internal sampler: http://www.zynewave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2119

    And, most important, integrated minisamplers in drum roll for each row, where you could load a sample or just use it as it’s now.

    But I would say that these things are luxuries, Podium should fix another issues 🙂

    November 11, 2009 at 09:59 #16724
    Pigini
    Participant

    Another good idea from you, I like it.
    It would be great for quick midi triggering of building blocks (like a pattern arranger). But I would not call it a sampler, most ppl would think it was just a workaround excuse for not having a real sampler (like liquid just did).
    We could call it audio arranger track or something.

    …oh, and I just can’t resist pointing to your other brainstorm idea again:
    http://www.zynewave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1831

    November 13, 2009 at 00:04 #16730
    xis23
    Participant

    This would be cool!

    I have always had in my imagination an idea where you can sorta use the piano roll as a direct sampler…. It’s a bit simpler than your idea, but maybe a precursor it…

    You would basically drag wavs onto the piano roll and where the bar for the note is normally shown, it would instead show a wave which you can drag to what size you want… Also you would be able to change the fade in/out etc here too… Obviously like a sampler you would have to determine the pitch of the tune first before you go playing with it on the piano roll, unless it had auto detection like melodyne or soemthing..

    In the track view, because you can’t see the piano roll, you would see the sample with C2, or G#3 or whatever note it was written on it…
    This would be well intuitive and quite easy to grasp, also look and feel good since you always see the samples you are working with…

    November 13, 2009 at 08:45 #16731
    Mike G
    Participant

    Thanks for feedabck.

    First of all I was thinking I wanted an internal sampler. And that podium needed one to give that complete out of the box experience for new hobbiest users.
    There are loads of samplers already out there (shortcircuit)
    Problem is you have to learn the sampler as well as the DAW. (And they work very differently)
    Also there is lots of stuff for playing samples is already in the DAW.

    Boundary between vst instrument and daw is in my opinion an issue, frits has overcome this a bit with making his own zynewave vsts give extra intergration into podium.
    I think if frits ever decided he needed to make a simple sampler then this is worth considering.

    I expected that for a beginner this option would be best and I think would be quicker to develop than fritz writing his own sampler vst.

    Question: Do many people use samples in audio tracks for drums, I don’t personally becuase I try and do live drums and I like the flexibility to alter the sample/sound after playing the part.
    I was under the impression lots of dance music people use wav files direct in in audio tracks. (Based on seeing interviews/videos in CM mag)

    I do however completely agree that this is not urgent.
    Just had the idea so I needed to set it free!

    November 26, 2009 at 13:21 #16828
    UncleAge
    Participant

    I think a built in sample player is a useful tool. In addition, I think Live has the best implementation of this in Simpler. Live also uses Simpler as a vehicle for slicing wav & rex files to drumracks. For those who have never used it you basically end up with one instance of simpler for each slice and each slice gets it’s own midi note and effect chain. Effective and Simple.

    The parts that I find essential are:
    1. zoom in/out on waveforms (place mouse in display-hold left mouse and drag up and down)
    2. set start/end points of sample (either in display by dragging arrows or by adjusting the start/length controls in the context window)
    3. ADSR envelope
    4. volume
    5. loop (which also facilitates playback direction)
    6. transpose
    7. detune
    8. offset (Time)

    Also when adjusting the start and length(end) it will display the time/sample markers at the bottom of the display if you are zoomed in enough. The rest of the options I don’t use much, if at all.

    I’m not saying that this is exactly what I want in Podium one day. I’m just saying its a good fit in my workflow and a decent starting point if certain dev should decide to go down that path 😉

    November 26, 2009 at 13:40 #16829
    Mike G
    Participant

    Hi UncleAge,

    I’m curious, when you slice, do you just get one sample with the start/end points changed for each midi note or does it really chop up your audio file into many samples?

    One of the reasons I was thinking of more integration being needed was slicing, so that you don’t end up with chopped audio but rather clones of your actual audio files that you can still tweak the beat slice points after the fact.
    You start with an audio file in the daw and then end up with samples in the sampler when all you want out the other end is audio files in the daw.

    But … maybe I was imagining problems that don’t in reality always exist!

    -Mike G

    November 26, 2009 at 13:46 #16830
    UncleAge
    Participant

    In Live each Simpler is basically playing different parts of the same sample file. It doesn’t actually split it into separate wav’s. So if you wanted to move the start point of the third slice backwards, to where it would have a start point that was before the end point of the second slice, you could do so.

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