Zynewave.
acousmodHi,
I’m trying Podium in order to test its abilities for multichannel music, and I have some questions…
First of all, I find your software very impressive and really whish that it can be use for this purpose, but I must admit that I’m very confused with some of its interface aspect. I’m sure that a better knowledge of it would give me direct answers, but I didn’t found them for the meantime.
(I use a RME Multiface).
So :
1. When I import a multichannel wave file I can hear it only when I select a stereo output and the sound is very distorded, like if it were “subsampled”. When I select eight channels outputs I simply hear nothing.
2. I’ve searched a way to use multiple inputs/ouputs VST plugins, but the only way that seems to be allowed is to split it in several stereo sub-plugins and use them in subtracks ?
But I didn’t found how to process a sound with them…
3. I suppose too that there is a way to bounce tracks with multichannel buses, but how ???
4. I’ve seen that I can import 11 channels wave files (12 channels files are imported but with a bizarre channel assignment) but that the buses seems to be limited to 8 ?
In fact, all information concerning multichannel routing in Podium will be very appreciate !
Thanks
And Bravo for the Rotate Channels function !
(excuse my english !)
ZynewaveHi Jean-Marc,
You’re the first to express an interest in the multi-channel capabilities. Podium do support multi-channel wave files and playback/recording of multi-channel audio. I do not advertize Podium as being a ‘surround’ production system, because I still lack e.g. builtin panning support for surround audio. Since the surround features have not been used extensively, you may encounter some bugs in your tests.
(I use a RME Multiface).
So do I, with a HDSP cardbus interface.
1. When I import a multichannel wave file I can hear it only when I select a stereo output and the sound is very distorded, like if it were “subsampled”. When I select eight channels outputs I simply hear nothing.
I have just tried this, and I can confirm it is a bug. It appears that my multi-channel to stereo conversion routines has a glitch. You need to manually create a device mapping object for 7.1 output. Go to the Devices folder, copy/paste the ‘Master Stereo’ mapping and edit the new copy to ‘Master 7.1’ and change the channel configuration from stereo to 7.1. If you assign this mapping in your arrangement, the 8-channel sound files will be played correctly to the 8 audio output channels. Another way to check the audio playback of multi-channel files, is to use the project browser to open the audio editor for the sound object. Pressing play here will output the sound to the first audio channels that you have enabled in the interfaces dialog.
2. I’ve searched a way to use multiple inputs/ouputs VST plugins, but the only way that seems to be allowed is to split it in several stereo sub-plugins and use them in subtracks ?
I have not added support for the channel/speaker information supported by the VST standard. So importing plugins will only produce mono or stereo mappings. You can manually modify the mappings after import, to create multi-channel configurations.
But I didn’t found how to process a sound with them…
Applying plugins as a destructive processing in the audio editor, is not implemented yet.
I suppose too that there is a way to bounce tracks with multichannel buses, but how ???
I’m not sure what you mean here. Do you want to bounce-record the bus output?
4. I’ve seen that I can import 11 channels wave files (12 channels files are imported but with a bizarre channel assignment) but that the buses seems to be limited to 8 ?
Device mappings only allow up to 8 channel configurations. I did not expect anyone would need more :wink:. If need be, I can add more channel configuration options here. The buses support up to 32 channels, which you then can access using multiple device mappings with different channel offsets.
Frits
acousmodSo do I, with a HDSP cardbus interface.
Me too…
If you assign this mapping in your arrangement, the 8-channel sound files will be played correctly to the 8 audio output channels. Another way to check the audio playback of multi-channel files, is to use the project browser to open the audio editor for the sound object. Pressing play here will output the sound to the first audio channels that you have enabled in the interfaces dialog.
OK, this works nice.
I’m very happy to see a software that is able to mix and cut multichannel files. You’re the first after Nuendo !
You can manually modify the mappings after import, to create multi-channel configurations.
I’ve spent a lot of time today trying to understand how to configure the audio routing, but I’ve not succeeded.
When inserting a multichannel plugin, I see that the inputs of the stereo “sub plugins” are setting with a channel offset, but how can I make to send a stereo track through it and have all the outputs together on the multichannel master ??
I’ve tried to make several stereo tracks inside a 8 channels group : all sound is mixed on the 1/2 outputs.
When the signal is send by the plugin to outs 3 or more, I see the meter of the other tracks following but the sound is allways on 1/2.
In fact, I’ve not very well understood the Audio Configuration inside the Properties window of the plugin : Source channels/speaker seems to be the outputs of the plugin ??
What is the Target config ? It is set to None by default.
All seems to be possible but something is very strange for me.
What I want to do, is something like that :
– case one : mono or stereo track with 2 in / X out plugin (if you have a little time, you may try with this one : http://multiphonie.free.fr/fichiers/SpatSurround412.zip)
– case two : parallel processing, multichannel track-file with multichannel plugin (http://multiphonie.free.fr/fichiers/SpatVerb88.zip)
– for all and for instruments with multiple outputs, the possibility to record the result on a multichannel track, mix several multichannel tracks and export the wave extensible file…
Do you want to bounce-record the bus output?
So, yes.
From now, only Nuendo / CubaseSX (and naturally modular softwares) are able to do this.
Can you help me ?
Also, a direct support for multichannel plugins in a future version of Podium will be great.
If need be, I can add more channel configuration options here. The buses support up to 32 channels, which you then can access using multiple device mappings with different channel offsets.
It will be wonderfull !!!
I’m sure that all the guys who work with multichannel formats, from 5.1 to 24 channels (like me) will instantly buy Podium, even on Mac when/if you make a port some day !
A multitrack software that would handle such possibilites is very needed by the electroacoustic community, and what pleasure to NOT use Steinberg (or others) softwares 😉
Thank you very much !
acousmodOh, is there a diagram or a shema that shows the logic and the relationships between the tracks, mappings and busses routing ?
ZynewaveI downloaded the two plugins you referred to. It was quite funny to experiment with these 🙂
For reference, here’s a screenshot of my surround test arrangement:
http://www.zynewave.com/images/ScreenSpatSurround.png
As you can see, I’ve created an insert mapping for your SpatSurround412 plugin. In the properties dialog, I’ve unchecked the ‘link to global instance’, since this mapping handles both input and output. Thus you can assign the insert mapping to multiple tracks, each having a unique instance of the plugin.
The explanation for the source/target descriptions can be found at the bottom of this page:
http://www.zynewave.com/guide/guide22_mappings.htm
In the arrangement I’m feeding a stereo track into the plugin and I have configured the plugin track for bounce recording. The screenshot shows bounce recording in progress. So you don’t need to set up busses to record the output of your multichannel plugins.
Oh, is there a diagram or a shema that shows the logic and the relationships between the tracks, mappings and busses routing ?
Sorry, no. At present I can only offer screenshots such as the one I linked above.
Frits
acousmodThank you Frits, I’ve made some tests in 16 channels with two 8 channels master buses (thanks to the channel offset) and it runs fine with my RME.
I am impatient to hear you telling that you have extended the number of channel configurations to the max possible ! I suppose that 8, 12, 16 or more doesn’t change a lot of things in your programmation ?
I understand a little better the routings. Many things are in a very different logic than older softwares, but I suppose that with a some practice this one will in fact be more powerfull.
I have not succeded with automation like in your snapshot, so I will try more (and I have not yet read all the 400 pages manual which is shiped with Podium 😉
For the meantime I will wait for the MIDI connexions between plugins and make a list of little general whishes…
Jean-Marc
ZynewaveI am impatient to hear you telling that you have extended the number of channel configurations to the max possible ! I suppose that 8, 12, 16 or more doesn’t change a lot of things in your programmation ?
I’ve just released 1.18 which fixes the bug you mentioned in the first post. Next on my schedule is extension of the number of channels.
I have not succeded with automation like in your snapshot, so I will try more
Select the track with your plugin, open the parameter panel in the track inspector, and double click (or hit enter key) on the parameter you want to automate.
and I have not yet read all the 400 pages manual which is shiped with Podium 😉
😆 … and … 😯 … let me just state for the record that Podium does not come with a 400 page manual. I don’t want any new customers complaining that they haven’t received a printed manual 😉
Frits
acousmodI’ve just released 1.18 which fixes the bug you mentioned in the first post. Next on my schedule is extension of the number of channels.
Can I say : “Frits, I love you ?” 😛
I’ve made a 5.1 plugin especially for use inside Podium and working on an other which includes some 5 channels effects… (which may be ready tomorow) :
http://acousmodules.free.fr/fichiers/SpatPod.zip
You can say now that Podium can mix in 5.1 !
I will make a presentation of my plugins and spatialization techniques at Radio France in Paris the 3 & 4 december. I had previously planed to use Nuendo but now I would prefer to use Podium. Do you think that the extension channel and the automation of gestures which are made inside the plugins (instead of the control on the track) will be ready before ?
And sure, no need for a heavy 400 pages manual !
The 400 pages pdf for Max-Msp is unreadable…
Your way with guide and swf animation is excellent, just need some more chapters…
Thanks
ZynewaveHey Jean-Marc, cool plugin 8)
I think I will create a device definition for it and add it to the database. That way people can import it with the correct mapping setup (rather than separate mono/stereo mappings).
I will make a presentation of my plugins and spatialization techniques at Radio France in Paris the 3 & 4 december. I had previously planed to use Nuendo but now I would prefer to use Podium. Do you think that the extension channel and the automation of gestures which are made inside the plugins (instead of the control on the track) will be ready before ?
That sounds fascinating. The extra channels should be ready in a week. The plugin editor control recording requires more time to implement. It was not on my immediate plan, but several users have asked for it. I cannot promise it will be ready for December.
acousmodI think I will create a device definition for it and add it to the database. That way people can import it with the correct mapping setup (rather than separate mono/stereo mappings).
Thanks, I hope that it can be usefull for someone…
I’ve uploaded the one which includes and chains some FX together the 5.1 module (5.1 filters, 5 channels delais and 5 channels reverb). There are two versions inside the zip, one compact and one expanded view, for different usages :
http://acousmodules.free.fr/fichiers/SpatChainFX5.1.zip
Perhaps it would be fun even for stereo users ?
Concerning the device mapping, how can I update one without having to delete the definition and reimport the plugin ?
And is there this file concerning the SpatChain FX L correct ? http://acousmodules.free.fr/fichiers/SpatChainFXL.pod
So I can put myself the device definitions with the plugins.
The extra channels should be ready in a week.
Wonderfull !!!!!
The plugin editor control recording requires more time to implement. It was not on my immediate plan, but several users have asked for it. I cannot promise it will be ready for December.
Never mind…
Perhaps the MIDI out of VST will it be ready ?
Cheers
ZynewaveConcerning the device mapping, how can I update one without having to delete the definition and reimport the plugin ?
You can update the preset objects, inside an arrangement editor using the track menu. If you redesign your plugin with changes to I/O or parameters, you will have to reimport the plugin.
And is there this file concerning the SpatChain FX L correct ?
I’ll take a look at it later tonight.
Perhaps the MIDI out of VST will it be ready ?
Can’t make any promises. After the next release (1.19) I will begin to look at it.
acousmodIf you redesign your plugin with changes to I/O or parameters, you will have to reimport the plugin.
Yes, quite logical..
Can’t make any promises. After the next release (1.19) I will begin to look at it.
will hope
Nevertheless, thank you very much for your support, quick and powerfull, I will let you work now…
ZynewaveI’ve added AcousModules to the Device Definition forum, and uploaded three definition files for your Podium plugins.
When creating the definition files, I started out with a blank project, imported the plugin, set a sensible project name, added a stickie note with version info, created two insert mappings for either mono or stereo input and 5.1 output, and deleted the remaining mappings.
