Topic: Need help please with GUI / graphics issues…thanks…

This topic has 22 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 10 months ago by ZChris.

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December 1, 2008 at 22:19 #1745

Conquistador
Participant

I did mention something similar before about graphics being starved in Podium (cursor not moving when moving a knob on an FX GUI) but after extensive testing with different plugs RMX, PSP Mix pack e.t.c there is no doubt it is not plugin specific IMO.

Just hitting playback and then turning knobs a few times or attempting to automate a parameter by moving a knob as a song plays seems to cause the cursor to stop (not a big deal as such) but also the GUI of RMX or indeed any plug so far to disappear from the screen 😯

It happens at low and high CPU loads. So that appears to make no difference.

I have an Nvidia 8800GT so clearly it cannot be that. This problem has seriously affected my usage of Podium for a very long time now.

I just cannot get around this issue. 😕

The problem appears on Vista 32 and Vista x64. it has been this way for a long time now…(long before 2.0.7) I did not want to bring it up so as to avoid wasting your time. I thought it might be Vista or my graphics card. Maybe Aero on Vista but switching that off makes no difference.

Strangely I get a black border on the right and bottom of the screen (in Podium) which shifts Podiums GUI upward diagonally every single time before an FX gui vanishes from the screen in Podium. Bizarre.

Any ideas please Frits thanks! 🙁

December 3, 2008 at 23:39 #13512

Zynewave
Keymaster

I have never experienced this symptom myself, and I’m on Vista Business 32-bit.

So this can happen with just one plugin loaded in the arrangement?

Can you refer me to a plugin (freeware or demo) that shows this behaviour? If you can only refer me to a plugin demo, then please confirm that the demo also fails on your system.

Have you tried Podium on other Vista PCs with similar problems?

It would also be nice if you can grab a screenshot of the messed up screen.

December 4, 2008 at 21:40 #13514

Conquistador
Participant

Been trying to access this site for most of the evening..

@Zynewave wrote:

I have never experienced this symptom myself, and I’m on Vista Business 32-bit.

So this can happen with just one plugin loaded in the arrangement?

Not seen it yet with one plugin but if I for instance solo a track (reducing the CPU load to the plug on that track) then the problem is still there.

Can you refer me to a plugin (freeware or demo) that shows this behaviour? If you can only refer me to a plugin demo, then please confirm that the demo also fails on your system.

PSP Mix pack 2. The demo had the same issue. I was using the mix bass 2 plug.

Have you tried Podium on other Vista PCs with similar problems?

Same PC…different OS (Vista x64).

It would also be nice if you can grab a screenshot of the messed up screen.

Trying but the black border at the foot of the screen (right side and bottom) for some reason is not coming out in a print screen. ?!?!?

After some more testing the Task Manager appears to be the problem…at least in part. Plugins are much less likely to starve Podium graphically when knobs are moved…if the task manager is not open.

Leaving the task manager open was one of your suggestions though (if you are wondering) in response to a similar problem I had with Podiums CPU meter some time ago. 🙂

Even without the task manager open the black border still appears (with a “Podium not responding” message at the top left of the screen if Podium is busy…but not necessarily at a heavy CPU load.

December 10, 2008 at 03:08 #13526

Zynewave
Keymaster

@Conquistador wrote:

Been trying to access this site for most of the evening..

My host provider was moving the server physically from LA to San Diego, so that’s why zynewave.com was offline for almost a day.

After some more testing the Task Manager appears to be the problem…at least in part. Plugins are much less likely to starve Podium graphically when knobs are moved…if the task manager is not open.

Leaving the task manager open was one of your suggestions though (if you are wondering) in response to a similar problem I had with Podiums CPU meter some time ago. 🙂

Can’t remember the topic, but I certainly didn’t intend to recommend that you should keep the task manager open at all times. Only open it during diagnostics of the CPU usage. The task manager uses a high priority thread to measure the CPU usage, which can lead to audio dropouts each time task manager updates the CPU graph.

Please try to disable the “enable plugin multiprocessing” option in preferences, and see if this changes the behaviour of the problems.

December 19, 2008 at 18:21 #13536

Conquistador
Participant

@Zynewave wrote:

My host provider was moving the server physically from LA to San Diego, so that’s why zynewave.com was offline for almost a day.

Ok that explains it. 🙂

Please try to disable the “enable plugin multiprocessing” option in preferences, and see if this changes the behaviour of the problems

.

Plugin multiprocessing changes do not make any difference. The task manager was the main culprit it appears, but even without it that black border around the edges seems to appear either at a projects start up or under heavy CPU load if I try and do something during playback.

January 8, 2009 at 11:32 #13615

Conquistador
Participant

Here is a screen shot of the black borders I mentioned earlier…

(click on the thumbnail for a full screen image). It would have been too big for a forum post.

My thoughts on it…

It sometimes appears when loading projects. I can understand Podium is busy doing something but even if an application becomes unresponsive for a short time (not regularly but under certain condidtions) it should not also shift the screen diagonally left, leaving black borders at the right and bottom of the screen (clearly visible in the image above) until the application (Podium in this case) becomes responsive again.

The appearance of black borders looks really odd and somewhat unfinished, which is the total opposite of the rest of Podium and of course I know it is not deliberate on your part. Simply some sort of glitch or similar.

At the very least if the “Podium is not responding” message is Windows telling me to simply wait…the graphical shifting looks like a Podium issue. None of my other applications have ever done that.

These kind of graphical issues gives the impression of Podium not being reliable. Strange really as it is very consistent elsewhere.

The image has captured the problem during an attempt to load a project. But I have seen it during playback as well (when tweaking a knob on a plugin for instance).

HTH

Some questions for you Frits…

1. Do you run Aero on Vista on your Dev machine?
2. Do you have any internet related software running when you use a finished version (not still in Beta) of Podium?

Why the questions…? Not troubleshooting your machine 😛 just trying to get a better idea as to why you have not seen this before thanks. It is an irritating problem.

January 8, 2009 at 16:46 #13617

thcilnnahoj
Participant

Hey,

I’m just chiming in to say I’ve never had these problems either.

I did a stress test on Podium just now with that PSP mix pack demo and a dozen freeware plug-ins without any hitch.
I’m also using 32-bit Vista, with Aero, internet stuff and everything on a dual core PC with a Radeon HD2400, so really not top of the line.

Does it happen when Podium is in full screen mode, too?
Or do you, by any chance, remember around which Podium version it first appeared?
Maybe Frits could send you a few older ones for testing.

Sorry I can’t be of much help… if anything, I’d say you could try out some newer and older drivers for your graphics card.
It’d be great if you could try on a different PC, though.

Best of luck! 😉

January 8, 2009 at 17:55 #13620

Conquistador
Participant

Does it happen when Podium is in full screen mode, too?

Yep.

Or do you, by any chance, remember around which Podium version it first appeared?

Pre 2.07 for sure.

Maybe Frits could send you a few older ones for testing.

Funnily enough I have many older builds but I simply don’t have the time for testing older builds frankly. I think the issue is best resolved looking at the current build.

Sorry I can’t be of much help… if anything, I’d say you could try out some newer and older drivers for your graphics card.

Whadddaya know Nvidia released a driver update today 08.01.09(8800GT here)…downloading now… Nvidia may be reading this thread >tee hee< :wink: I don’t think I will try an older driver…graphics driver support can be iffy but I prefer new drivers to old personally, although driver support is not that straightforward.

In any case I don’t think it’s a graphic driver issue as Podium is the only app that has the problem here. I’ll see what happens with the new driver.

It’d be great if you could try on a different PC, though.

Worth a try…

Cheers 🙂

January 9, 2009 at 00:29 #13631

Zynewave
Keymaster

@Conquistador wrote:

Here is a screen shot of the black borders I mentioned earlier…

…

It sometimes appears when loading projects. I can understand Podium is busy doing something but even if an application becomes unresponsive for a short time (not regularly but under certain condidtions) it should not also shift the screen diagonally left, leaving black borders at the right and bottom of the screen (clearly visible in the image above) until the application (Podium in this case) becomes responsive again.

I’ve seen the “not responding” message before, but that is only when there is a bug that causes Podium to freeze completely (an endless loop in the code, not a crash). How many seconds does it take during Podium startup before the not responding message appears? And does the screen return to normal when Podium is finally ready after startup?

It is the Windows OS that appends the “not responding” text in the title bar. The Podium maximized state hides all window borders and the window title bar (unlike other applications), so that is why the screen shifts when the Windows OS forces the window title to be visible. If you restore the Podium main window so that the window frame is visible, you won’t see the shift when the “not responding” message is appended to the title.

1. Do you run Aero on Vista on your Dev machine?

Yes.

2. Do you have any internet related software running when you use a finished version (not still in Beta) of Podium?

Yes. All the standard Microsoft stuff that comes with Vista, and Avast antivirus.

What model is your CPU?

January 9, 2009 at 14:48 #13634

Conquistador
Participant

@Zynewave wrote:

I’ve seen the “not responding” message before, but that is only when there is a bug that causes Podium to freeze completely (an endless loop in the code, not a crash).

Hmmm could be something more serious then.

How many seconds does it take during Podium startup before the not responding message appears?

It depends. It is intermittent but if you click anywere on the screen as Podium loads a project, it can take about two seconds or so then it appears.

And does the screen return to normal when Podium is finally ready after startup?

Yes once a project has fully loaded the screen returns to normal.

It is the Windows OS that appends the “not responding” text in the title bar. The Podium maximized state hides all window borders and the window title bar (unlike other applications), so that is why the screen shifts when the Windows OS forces the window title to be visible.

Thanks for clarifying that…so there is a reason for this behaviour. This brings me to another question though… why is it that Podium is doing something (at least in this area) “unlike other applications”?

It seems to be something under Podiums hood (which is way over my head just guessing here) but if Podium is doing somehting it probably should not, then should this behaviour not be changed as Windows clearly is clashing with Podium in some way or another. It also explains why the other apps I have did not exhibit this graphical shift.

If you restore the Podium main window so that the window frame is visible, you won’t see the shift when the “not responding” message is appended to the title.

Yeah so far I have not seen it following your suggestion, but I would not use Podium that way.

Thanks for answering the q’s. I was beggining to wonder if my internet security package was causing the issue. The shifting seems to stop if

a. No internet usage is active or available.
b. No firewall or antivirus is active
c. If no Task manager is visible.

Problem is, somehow I cannot use Podium the way many here appear to, while accessing the internet.

I generally will shut everything down for serious work (as many here likely do) but even with that at times I have seen some shifting of the screen while working on a project.

What model is your CPU?

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2403 Mhz,
4 Core(s)
4 Logical Processor(s)

Or even better…

If you need more info I can simply click on one of those tabs to get another screen shot up.

Its a nice little free app (if you do not already know of it) CPU -Z

Their home page.

There is even one for video cards called GPU-Z

January 10, 2009 at 01:18 #13646

Zynewave
Keymaster

@Conquistador wrote:

How many seconds does it take during Podium startup before the not responding message appears?

It depends. It is intermittent but if you click anywere on the screen as Podium loads a project, it can take about two seconds or so then it appears.

According to MS documentation, the “not responding” title should only appear if the app fails to respond to user input for a period longer than 5 seconds. That may happen if you click the app window during startup, and the project takes longer than 5 seconds to load. The user input should not be blocked for that long when you e.g. drag controls in a plugin editor. Something else is messing with the system in that case. I don’t know what it could be.

It is the Windows OS that appends the “not responding” text in the title bar. The Podium maximized state hides all window borders and the window title bar (unlike other applications), so that is why the screen shifts when the Windows OS forces the window title to be visible.

Thanks for clarifying that…so there is a reason for this behaviour. This brings me to another question though… why is it that Podium is doing something (at least in this area) “unlike other applications”?

It seems to be something under Podiums hood (which is way over my head just guessing here) but if Podium is doing somehting it probably should not, then should this behaviour not be changed as Windows clearly is clashing with Podium in some way or another. It also explains why the other apps I have did not exhibit this graphical shift.

Podium is hiding the window titlebar to save some valuable space that can be better used to show additional tracks etc. Other applications are doing something similar. I believe Tracktion also has done away with the standard window titlebar.

Something you could try:
When Podium is launched, open the task manager, right-click the Podium.exe on the processes page, select “set affinity” and reduce the number of enabled CPUs to only one. Let me know if you still experience problems even when only running on one CPU core.

January 10, 2009 at 16:47 #13656

Conquistador
Participant

Thanks for the additional info.

@Zynewave wrote:

Podium is hiding the window titlebar to save some valuable space that can be better used to show additional tracks etc. Other applications are doing something similar. I believe Tracktion also has done away with the standard window titlebar.

Yes I think Tracktion does indeed not use Windows title bar.

Something you could try:
When Podium is launched, open the task manager, right-click the Podium.exe on the processes page, select “set affinity” and reduce the number of enabled CPUs to only one. Let me know if you still experience problems even when only running on one CPU core

For some reason I am not getting access to this option. I can see it. I click on it…and I then get an error “Unable to Access or Set Process Affinity”

I thought it might be due to the OS. x64 here so maybe because Podium is not a native x64 app it will not let me change the Affinity settings.?!?!?

Reason Adapted had a similar problem (did a quick check) but some other apps (x86 versions on x64)) did not have this issue and I get access to their Affinity settings easily.

I will try again on x86 Vista.

January 11, 2009 at 12:23 #13666

Conquistador
Participant

Really strange… I cannot change Affinity settings for Podium on Vista x86 either. Are you sure I should be able to do this without an additional step somewhere?

January 11, 2009 at 16:57 #13668

Zynewave
Keymaster

@Conquistador wrote:

Really strange… I cannot change Affinity settings for Podium on Vista x86 either. Are you sure I should be able to do this without an additional step somewhere?

On my system I can check/uncheck each individual CPU core in the “Processor Affinity” dialog.

Can you change the affinity for other running applications? Try to open e.g. MS Paint, and follow the task manager procedure I described.

January 11, 2009 at 18:32 #13677

Conquistador
Participant

No problem with paint..

Kaspersky 2009, Guitar Rig standalone…no problems.

However…I could not access Affinity settings for any audio hosts I have…Project 5, Sonar..CD Architecht e.t.c

No idea why.

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