Levendis.
ishkabbibleI would like to use Podium as the host for the ZynAddSubFx synth, but it is behaving strangely – Podium records the MIDI input, but as far as I can tell it is NOT recording the audio output. I just downloaded Podium, so total newbie, but I have RTFM and even watched some of the video tutorials.
The project starts out with just a Master track
I add a new track (tried several of the different methods, they all get me to the same place)
Drag the ZynAddSubFx plugin to the track (or select it as the input device in the create track dialog), it correctly gloms onto the MIDI input and I can hear what I am playing through my speakers and see the level meters move
Arm the track for recording, press the record button at the bottom (track turns red), then press the play button (cursor starts moving)
As I play, I can see the MIDI commands appear on the “piano roll” track display, and I can hear what I am playing through the speakers, and the level meters are moving
Press the Stop button. I now have a piano roll of the MIDI stuff, which I can edit.
BUT – There is no associated audio track (as is shown in the pictures in the manual and the tutorials), and the Master track is a flat line (regardless of whether or not I also arm the master track for record).
I assume that this is a simple case of user error and I have missed some little detail, but I have pushed every button, turned every knob, and poked at every menu I could find and my audio track remains stubbornly nonexistant.
I talked to the ZynAddSubFx developer, and he said that during his testing with Podium he never actually took the final step of mixing down the audio, so he can’t be positive that it was ever recorded during his testing. But he is on vacation right now and away form his computer so he can’t test it. But it seems to me that if the level meters are moving, that must mean that Podium has a hold of the audio stream, and is for some reason choosing not to record it. I have even dragged the reverb effect onto the track, and the reverb clearly grabs the audio from the synth (nice reverb effect, BTW) because I hear it in the speakers, but still, when I record I get no audio track.
What have I missed here? I like the idea of recording the MIDI track in parallel to the audio track, but in that scenario the audio track is essential, and the MIDI track is the “nice to have.”
PLEASE HELP! I’ve been gnawing on this bone for 2 days now. I would say it is driving me to drink, but it is WAY too late for that 🙂 Thanks in advance for any advice.
kim_otcjThat’s the normal behaviour for midi tracks. Recording on a midi track creates a midi clip that you can edit with the piano-roll editor. That’s what anyone would want most of the time.
To convert a midi track into audio, you need to bounce it. To do that, you right click on the track header and choose bounce/offline render bouncing. That should put the B button on the track header that you can press when you want to create the audio clip.
Personally, I just put all my VSTi instruments in a group, then bounce the group track. I don’t have the most powerful computer in the world, and bouncing midi tracks frees up a lot of processing power.
kim_otcjBy the way, when you’ve finished your song and want to save it as a .wav file, you do much the same thing on the master track:
Enable offline render bouncing, then press the bounce button. You can export the bounced audio using the bounce menu that appears in the effects stack.
ishkabbibleThank you very much, Kim. I guess that makes sense in a strange sort of way. Looks like I have a lot to learn – apparently the whole philosophy behind recording / editing music has changed from my generation (which is not necessarily a bad thing, I come from the days when editing was done with 2 tape decks, a razor blade, and a roll of scotch tape – this digital editing seems like cheating 😕 )
So it appears that I need to learn to edit in 2 domains – first edit the keystrokes (if necessary), then render / bounce the audio to a track somewhere, unload the synth, rinse and repeat as necessary. Then in a second step pull all the bounced audio tracks together for the final edit / mix. I guess I could get used to this.
OK Thanks. I’m off to learn a new paradigm. Let’s see if this Podium thingy lives up to the hype 😉 If it does, I’ll have something new up on soundcloud by the end of the weekend
kim_otcjLooks like I have a lot to learn – apparently the whole philosophy behind recording / editing music has changed from my generation
Absolutely — and I’ve lived through all of that.
Back in the analogue days, the emphasis was on printing tracks to tape. But these days they call that rendering and it’s the trivially easy final step in the process. Press the button, wait a few seconds, then it’s done. The emphasis now is on generating sounds, on editing, and on effects plugins. And the idea is that you can change anything in real time, so you can get everything just right before you commit to it.
I made my first ever multi-track recording with a mixer and two tape machines, so when I finally got around to using proper modern DAWs the possibilities were mind-blowing to me.
ishkabbibleso you can get everything just right before you commit to it.
😆 I almost spewed my coffee when I read that 😀 Compared to the analog tape era, the level of “commitment” in digital recording is about the same as a Kim Kardashian marriage!
And you are right – it doesn’t take much to max out 1 core with Podium – I will definitely have to buy a license if I want to keep using it. I haven’t even finished setting up the drum track and I am already maxing it out. I just wish there was a way I could see how well it scales to multiple cores before I commit.
Levendis@ishkabbible wrote:
Compared to the analog tape era, the level of “commitment” in digital recording is about the same as a Kim Kardashian marriage!
😆 LOL
@ishkabbible wrote:
I just wish there was a way I could see how well it scales to multiple cores before I commit.
Try the demo. But beware, saving projects in the demo version might create *.pod files incompatible with (previous versions of) Podium Free. I suggest saving fresh project files and access them when Podium Free matches the version of the demo.
ishkabbiblethe demo version might create *.pod files incompatible with (previous versions of) Podium Free
I posted about this in the support forum – apparently the incompatibility may go both ways? I tried to load a project I created in free into the demo and it makes all manner of strange noises mixed in with the actual music – not buffer over/underflow type noises, but more like it is sending random patches to the synth (or some synth – does some synth come bundled in the demo version?)
LevendisNucleum, I believe, was developed by Frits. CRAZY synth it is. 😀
If you’re looking to build a plugin studio, may I suggest KVR?! That’s a link to news about free vsts and hosts.
This thread is great as it comprises suggested plugins by fellow Podium users 😀
ishkabbibleIf you’re looking to build a plugin studio
Nope, but it may be a necessary evil.
:frustrated:
You can follow the path that brought me to Podium over on KVR:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=308947&&postorder=asc&start=8
and
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=337612&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
My goal here is to do some serious development work on and recording with the ZynAddSubFx open source synth. Personally, I think the idea of a DAW is absolutely nuts (how can adding one more layer of software make anything go faster, I wonders?), but it DOES seem to solve some of my latency issues, so I am off evaluating DAWs simply because I need a host for this one specific plugin. In parallel, I am looking at discrete solutions:
MIDI controller –> MIDI mapper –> MIDI sequencer / editor –> Stand alone ZynAddSubFx build –> Audacity (or some multitrack recorder) –> sound card.
I already have versions that I like of all the links in that chain, and this is how I recorded the 2 clips I have up on soundcloud. But the problem seems to be in those pesky arrows – passing MIDI and audio streams between apps in windoze seems to be the sticking point where my latency problems arise.
Levendis@ishkabbible wrote:
My goal here is to do some serious development work on and recording with the ZynAddSubFx open source synth… but it DOES seem to solve some of my latency issues…
I loaded ZunAddSubFx into an arrangement. Amended the default preset and called up some internal fx. The latency between midi keyboard and Podium was the same as set by ASIO drivers.
I didn’t set up a multi-instrument via its internal mixer. If you want to work with a plugin’s internal channels, you have to use a multitimbral instance of that plugin.
@ishkabbible wrote:
In parallel, I am looking at discrete solutions:
MIDI controller –> MIDI mapper –> MIDI sequencer / editor –> Stand alone ZynAddSubFx build –> Audacity (or some multitrack recorder) –> sound card.
I already have versions that I like of all the links in that chain, and this is how I recorded the 2 clips I have up on soundcloud. But the problem seems to be in those pesky arrows – passing MIDI and audio streams between apps in windoze seems to be the sticking point where my latency problems arise.
You’ve done well if you mapped ZynAddSubFx’s sequencer to Podium’s piano roll. Assuming I follow what you mean 😕
May I suggest you use Podium’s bounce rendering as sampler within the arrangement?! You can export those (or the entire track), then work on them in Audacity. That’s the process I use 😉
And a Stand alone ZynAddSubFx build controlled by Podium could raise latency times. Does Stand alone ZynAddSubFx build allow you to select audio drivers?
ishkabbibleAssuming I follow what you mean :Confused:
No no no – my discrete setup does not use Podium (or any DAW, unless you consider Audacity a DAW-lite), and it used a stand-alone (.exe) build of ZynAddSubFx. I used MIDI-OX as the MIDI mapper, and MIDI-Yoke to connect the output of MIDI-OX to the input of the Jazz++ MIDI sequencer / recorder, and to connect its MIDI output to the MIDI input of the synth. Then I used Virtual Audio Cable to route the audio output of the synth into Audacity.
(in essence, I used windows itself as the DAW, and plugged in windows executables, and used windows drivers as “patch cables” to interconnect the various apps)
Levendis@ishkabbible wrote:
(in essence, I used windows itself as the DAW, and plugged in windows executables, and used windows drivers as “patch cables” to interconnect the various apps)
Aah… I get ya 😳
Yeah, using Podium would leave a smaller footprint on your system’s processing… I suspect.