LiquidProj3ct.
accordoHello everyone. First time here.
First impression: Few hours with Podium and I am probably going to sell couple of licenses over this… except that I have a lot of music to transfer if that is going to be the case.
So far I feel home with it.
My post then is about a question regarding the navigation in the Pianoroll.
I write mostly with the mouse due to the fact that I travel often as a professional industrial designer for business and for training. So the laptop is my tool.
I use several software such as energyXT, FL Studio, Reason, Reaper, Orion and MuLab (which took over energyXT).
My main tool now is MuLab because of the ability to use the mouse in a way that there is no need, for the most part, of modifier keys, which is a great plus for speed and for writing, when the left hand is on the keyboard, in combination with mouse input which it makes it difficult for the left hand to reach for the modifier keys constantly.
I was wondering if in the Pianoroll Editor Profile custom choices, the behavior of the mouse could be expanded. For example the Slide tool could be engaged by the RMB by simply detecting the initial movement of the cursor to bypass the right-click menu (similar to the iPhone in terms of detection/engagement).
For the most part, the Slide tool compensate for the scrolling of the wheel which could be use (by preference) for zooming in/out (Slide is faster and more natural than scrolling IMHO by reflecting the real world of pencil and paper hands movements).
This would allow to use the mouse in the pianoroll for writing, deleting, moving notes, right-click menu, zooming in/out and sliding without using any modifier keys.
Total work flow.
Writing notes is the heart of music and the less thinking the better.
Jumping from the keyboard to the modifier keys is not an ideal flow and it could be tailored a little bit more with an expanded option somewhere.
The program is a gem. The customizations are amazing and the visuals are stunning.
I am daring to ask, being a first time user, because I see what the developer is able to accomplish.
The dumbest request was the one never requested…. So here it is!
Soon to be a Podium user, with or without this feature.
Thank you.
4micaHi Accordo, and welcome! You picked a good one here, hope you stick with it…it’s worth it.
As for more mouse functions, I’m not sure what is to happen there. Frits said recently that customizable keyboard shortcuts are on his future list, and I’m not sure if that includes mouse options. As it stands now, your left hand will end up on the keyboard for certain shortcuts regardless. I’ve deleted the shortcut buttons for main screen, piano roll, mixer etc. to save space, so now I use the keyboard more, but that was my choice. By the way, you mentioned liking the customizations – yes, they’re great, and you have much more freedom in tweaking than other hosts. One of the many great things about Podium. Have a good day-
accordoThank you for the warm welcome!
Yes I will stick with it.
Having worked from energyXT 1.3x and up to now with MuLab, I come to appreciate the extensive use of the Right Click which when used just for a menu is a kind of a waste. That was the majior reason I let go of Reason and Orion in the first place. (Orion though is a great DAW way apart from the usual group).
Reaper did something with the RMB but not as well as the other two I just mentioned.
Yesterday I played with Podium for a while and I can say that I could easily use it exclusively. It has what I need and some. It’s a visual pleasure and a refreshing workflow. Great vision indeed!
I had to export some improvisations to MuLab in order to quickly polish it due to the reason of this post, but it’s still worthed so far… I hope.
You have no idea what it means to have those feature I pointed out in a Pianoroll… it increases your speed tenfold, just with a slight change to a RMB behavior.
I hope in the future this will become a standard to which several DAW are subscribing to and it will make Podium’ Pianoroll more flexible and accessible to even more large musicians diversity.
Nothing is perfect, I know, this is why we have version numbers :wink:.
This is definitely a work of love and it is among the best I ever came across in a DAW. One man operation? STUNNING!
Thank you.
thcilnnahojHi and welcome, Accordo!
Frits has said before that he indeed planned to work on the way tools are selected. Back then he seemed partial to the way it’s done in Logic (having one tool per mouse button, as you also suggested).
Although I think it’s safe to say this won’t come to pass in the next few months, here’s a link to a post in which I tried to give a little thought to various tool systems some time ago.
Any suggestions regarding this and other Podium developments are of course always welcome in these forums! 🙂
4micaThanks for the link, Thcilnnahoj. I recall reading it when it came out, but needed reminding…the tool per mouse button idea is interesting, as I use Opera browser, which uses combos of mouse buttons. Like if you hold the LMB and click the RMB once, it advances one page. Hold the RMB and click the LMB once, it goes back a page. There are also uses for the MMB, by itself as well as in combination with the RMB. These may sound convoluted to some, but you get used to it very quickly, and surfing is that much faster. Dunno what hosts have mouse button combos but it would be spiffy for whatever purpose, no?
accordoIn a couple of days I will post a little video that could shed some light on a neat mouse operation. Very efficient and FAST.
Anyway, this is a great forum so far. Open mind users and probably Developer too.
I watched some video on Podium and I must say it’s a first class software, in fact, beside my mouse habits and suggestions, for me it’s perfect.
Still I need time to adjust….. :-k
InfinitoarDon’t worry bud, you’ll get it. I had to get used to it also but I had a blast and still do have loads of fun using Podium. When updates become available I’m sure Zynewave will let us know. = ) And welcome to the community, I’ve basically just joined myself!
accordoAwesome! 8)
ZynewaveHi accordo. Thanks for the feedback.
@accordo wrote:
I was wondering if in the Pianoroll Editor Profile custom choices, the behavior of the mouse could be expanded. For example the Slide tool could be engaged by the RMB by simply detecting the initial movement of the cursor to bypass the right-click menu (similar to the iPhone in terms of detection/engagement).
Your suggestions for enhancing keyless mouse operation are welcome. At some point I’m going to enhance multi-touch operation of Podium.
One issue I see with using right-click+drag for sliding, is that currently any clicked events are selected on button down. That is the standard Windows behaviour when right-clicking objects. I think that needs to be changed, so that the objects only gets selected on button up, simultaneously with the menu popup. Or would it be ok if the right-click slide tool would affect the selection under the cursor?
Only if the mouse is moved a certain distance (4 pixels is the Windows default) will the slide tool jump into action. This is necessary, or else it would be very hard to reliably open a menu (unless you use a trackpad instead of a mouse).
For the most part, the Slide tool compensate for the scrolling of the wheel which could be use (by preference) for zooming in/out (Slide is faster and more natural than scrolling IMHO by reflecting the real world of pencil and paper hands movements).
This would allow to use the mouse in the pianoroll for writing, deleting, moving notes, right-click menu, zooming in/out and sliding without using any modifier keys.
So you would like an option to change the default mousewheel action to do zooming instead of sliding?
Frits
accordoThank you for you replay.
First I need to congratulate you for the amazing work you are able to produce. Beside the technical performance you have a very good sense of aesthetic and taste. It is a pleasure to work in an environment that is visually appealing and elegant.
I watched some of your videos and I was amazed at the depth of your program.
I feel uneasy to come here as a first timer and starting from the very first post to suggest features, but I think everyone needs to be true to themselves so here I am.
Here is a video that can explain better then my English.
https://www.box.net/shared/ahy5fa9bk7
All that you see was done “without any modifier keys” and yes you can also start sliding even if the cursor is on top of an event.
Some of the industrial design programs use the same protocol because it seems to be the most natural action for a person dealing with 2D and 3D space navigation.
What do you think? It is a very fast system to write and arrange music on a pianoroll without thinking too much on the modifiers.
All the rest of the necessary actions (the most used ones) that are not shown in the video, are done with one additional modifier key.
The pianoroll issue is becoming the Achilles heel of many DAWs.
Thank you
accordoForgot to add that double clicking on the wheel button zooms the Part to full length. Good bonus when we get lost….
accordoSorry, I’m at work and can’t really concentrate but I also like to add that you can Delete notes still without modifiers… (not shown in the video)
It seems that almost anything ( the most common actions) could be done with the mouse only.
Adding notes, Delete individually or a selection of notes, modify length for one or multiple events, Zoom in/out Horizontally and Vertically, Slide anywhere, right menu available, Zoom all, and more if simultaneous clicking is allowed….
Ok, I think this is all…..
michi_makaccordo, i’m not sure if it’s a good idea to compare a sequencer with an industrial design application!!!
there are too different needs imo
i left MuLab ( which you mentioned ) and other hosts because of their mouse oriented workflow – at least i prefer working with keyboard short cuts as much as possible but ymmv
accordoI am referring to MuLab 3.x
The old one was a pain. Industrial programs were called ONLY for the mouse navigation action which is already in Podium but without modifiers.
I understand your point and this is why I asked for Extended customization in order to accommodate users such as you, me and a host of other musician.
It is a beauty for a user (and probably Hell for the developer) to be able to adjust a program in a balanced (no extreme of course) way.
A developer is there for this reason IF it falls within his vision which IMO must be respected.
Such a wonderful program such as Podium is the result of Frits genius and vision and our humble input.
You definitely have a point with the way you use Podium. Me, I am just voicing my opinion based on years and tons of software mileage.
Hopefully it’s a good request.
BTW, Podium is years ahead of MuLab, not in modularity, but in everything else.
LiquidProj3ct@michi_mak wrote:
i left MuLab ( which you mentioned ) and other hosts because of their mouse oriented workflow – at least i prefer working with keyboard short cuts as much as possible but ymmv
I also share those thoughts. However I think that a good feature for Podium would be the free customization of mouse shorcuts.
@accordo wrote:
The pianoroll issue is becoming the Achilles heel of many DAWs.
I’m agree with you. They’re very few (including Podium) with a good navigation and behavior system.