Hi,
In the new Devices list of the New project screen shows the infos when we click on a plugin name in the bottom area.
It is indeed very nice.
But I wonder why the inputs are named Send, and the ouputs Return ???
(and MIDI send for MIDI input)
I find it, at least, extremely confusing for an “Insert plugin effect”, no ?
Why not use the termes that are used in all the other softwares ?
Personaly, I know now what they are, but if the goal is to help new commers…
The mappings names logic has already been discussed and in some ways is rather counter intuitive, but in this place I don’t see the goal to use it because the info concerns the plugin.
We’ve had this discussion quite a few times now. It’s a matter of point of view.
But I wonder why the inputs are named Send, and the ouputs Return ???
Using the “send” and “return” description was an attempt to make it clear that it refers to how the Podium mixer sees the devices. I’ve now changed it so that it uses “input” and “output” instead, from the viewpoint of the device. This results in the naming you want for plugins. But it also means that mappings for external hardware devices will show “MIDI input” followed by the name of the connected MIDI output interface, and “MIDI output” followed by the name of the connected MIDI input interface. When someone someday posts that they find this confusing, I’ll just link to this topic then 😉
And the exception to it all is of course the MIDI input, audio input and audio output mappings, which are not “devices” as such, and thus are seen from the viewpoint of the mixer. For these I inverse the input/output description. Otherwise a MIDI input mapping would have the description “MIDI output”.
And how about mixer bus mappings: Would you want a mixer send mapping to be labeled input or output? Or should it still use the current send/return labels?
What I liked about the send/return labels was that they could fit all types of device mappings.
Yes, as already said, all this terms problem is not easy to solve…
Thank you for changing the plugins labels send / return with input / output.
I can be wrong, but I really think that this will avoid some confusion from users and has the merit to be coherent with what we see all over.
But it also means that mappings for external hardware devices will show “MIDI input” followed by the name of the connected MIDI output interface, and “MIDI output” followed by the name of the connected MIDI input interface. When someone someday posts that they find this confusing, I’ll just link to this topic then Wink
So I am ready to receive a lot of complaints !
But honestly, I don’t think that it would be necessary to change this, because the physical inputs / outputs are considered as direct extensions of the softwares.
I have never seen in any audio software a place or a term to “send the output of the software to the internal input of the PCI bus which sends the signal to the physical output” !
What you are writing is something like this.
Even if it is true in the computer, and logical if we follow the path of the bits, it is not relevant for the user.
For him, and for all audio/video softwares UI, the output of the software IS equivalent to the output of the physical interface.
When we select the output of the master bus this also means the external output of the sound card, we don’t want to worried about how it receive the signal from the software.
There is no need to make the things more complicated !
I think that we all are ready to accept this shortcut and have the MIDI Input of the interface being also the MIDI Input of a track…
So, for a Physical Device mapping, a physical Input would have a “to track” option, and a physical Output a “from track” ?
And how about mixer bus mappings: Would you want a mixer send mapping to be labeled input or output? Or should it still use the current send/return labels?
If it is a mater of context, since the bus send / return are relative to a track or to a mixer, it seems logical to keep the current terms, which are also conform to the standard use : the signal is sent from a track and returns to another track.
For the mappings it is more complicate, becaus we see at the same time the plugins and the hierarchic structure.
What makes it even more difficult is that the same kind of mappings is also used for the physical inputs / outputs which are “outside” the tracks instead of “inside” like a plugin.
So you are right, trying to make the same terms used in both situation can make it strange.
What I liked about the send/return labels was that they could fit all types of device mappings.
I remember that I have made some time ago a suggestion for having different namings in the maping dialog depending if it is a plugin or a soundcard. Device mappings AND Plugins mappings ?
If from the point of view of the engine it is the same thing, from the point of view of a user this is really to different things ?
Of course, it is less elegant than having an identical mapping for all the cases, but perhaps that the programing logic is less important than the users logic ?
What if the mappings will be labelled “from track” and “to parent” in the case of a plugin ?
So logically the “input” of a plugin is the track, and its “output” is the parent track.
For a Device mapping, it could be “from track” and “to device” for an output, and “from device” and “to track” for an input ?
???
I hope that you will not be offended by my remarks ?
I just try to help because I whish that Podium could be as much as easy to use as it is powerful…
Perhaps also that I have missed something and that my suggestions are only silly ? 😆
Thanks for your patience !
THanks for the changes Frits…having looked at this in greater detail I have to say it is very confusing at first sight. I just could not think of what on earth they mean. Really confusing…initially. Not the kind of thing a new user should have to work out at all.
It is definitely the use of words Send and Return (outside of bus description) that is very confusing.
While at some point in future new users may come onboard and laugh out loud at the idea that it is confusing, right now it is a needless complexity IMHO for someone using Podium for the first time. Seriously.
Correct me if I am wrong but in the Devices: lists, bottom area…
An Audio – Output (Send:) is streaming information out of the mixer?
An Audio – Input (Return) is streaming information to the mixer?
FX plugins can Reutrn (stream) information to the mixer and…
FX Plugins can also Send (stream), information out of the mixer as well?
Instruments can only Return (stream) information to the mixer?
Midi inputs Return (stream) information to the mixer?
I think this makes sense, is this correct?
😉
I have never seen in any audio software a place or a term to “send the output of the software to the internal input of the PCI bus which sends the signal to the physical output” !
What you are writing is something like this.
Even if it is true in the computer, and logical if we follow the path of the bits, it is not relevant for the user.
For him, and for all audio/video softwares UI, the output of the software IS equivalent to the output of the physical interface.
I don’t quite follow the association with the PCI bus. In the context of working with devices in the arrangement, my perception of external hardware devices is exactly the same as plugins. If you use “input” as description when you send audio to an fx plugin, the same “input” label should apply when you send audio to an external fx unit. The confusing aspect is in the configuration of the mappings for external devices, where you have to select the “output” interfaces in the PC that you use to connect to the “input” connectors on the external device. It is this contradiction in terms that I tried to avoid by using the words send/return.
I have now changed the device mapping properties dialog. The labels for “MIDI input configuration”, “MIDI output configuration”, “Source channels/speakers” and “Target channels/speakers” now change according to the type of mapping. E.g. for a plugin mapping the audio source and target labels now instead read “Mixer input (plugin output)” and “Mixer output (plugin input)”.
@Conquistador wrote:
I think this makes sense, is this correct?
You are correct in your interpretation of send/return. But as said in my previous posts, this is all changed now so that input/output is used instead. Bus mappings still use send/return labels though.
@Zynewave wrote:
@Conquistador wrote:
I think this makes sense, is this correct?
You are correct in your interpretation of send/return. But as said in my previous posts, this is all changed now so that input/output is used instead. Bus mappings still use send/return labels though.
All good. I have no problems with the bus mappings so thanks for keeping those. 😉
The labels for “MIDI input configuration”, “MIDI output configuration”, “Source channels/speakers” and “Target channels/speakers” now change according to the type of mapping. E.g. for a plugin mapping the audio source and target labels now instead read “Mixer input (plugin output)” and “Mixer output (plugin input)”.
I think, and I hope, that it will make things clearer for most of the users.
We were now used to the previous terms, but I guess that it will not be hard to be used to the new ones 😉