Topic: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories

This topic has 65 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 10 months ago by Zynewave.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 66 total)

1 2 3 4 5 →

January 31, 2010 at 19:21 #2127

Zynewave
Keymaster

I don’t have a beta ready, but I’m experimenting with a new feature that I would like your input on:

There is a new track toolbar in the default setup, with a few new toolbar elements as shown in the screenshot:

The “+” button will add a new track. Right-clicking will open the track template menu for creating a new track.

Three new global SMR buttons, which indicate if there are any tracks that are soloed, muted or record armed. Moving the mouse over the button will show a popup with a list of the corresponding track names. Clicking the button will reset the mode on all tracks.

Finally there is a new “Track category bar”. This is a feature that I in a previous preview topic referred to as “track filters”, but I’m thinking that “category” is a better description. If you have a better word for it, let me know. In a new arrangement it will initially show only the “Categories” button. Clicking the button will open the dialog shown in the screenshot, where you can add up to 32 categories and assign each track to any of the categories. The categories are stored per arrangement, so each arrangement can have different categories.

There are several uses for this: You can use the category buttons to quickly show/hide tracks. You can also use the buttons to solo/mute all tracks in the category. Compared to group tracks, the difference is that categories can contain an arbitrary track selection. In the screenshot above I created a mockup arrangement where I try to illustrate this:

First there is a group of “player” categories, which could be identical to group tracks in the arrangement. You can use these category buttons to quickly show/hide tracks so that you don’t have to scroll the entire track list all the time. You can have several categories selected simultaneously, so that you can view e.g. the Drummer and Busses tracks only.

The second set of categories is divided into microphone placement. Each player may have been recorded using several mikes, and so you can use the categories to for example mute ambient mike tracks or solo overhead mike tracks, etc.

I’m not settled on how many options should be available for a category. The basic options are show/hide tracks, solo and mute. Taking it further it could as an example also be used to lock faders together, so that if you select the lock faders option on the overhead mikes category, moving a fader on a track in that category will cause all other overhead mike track faders to move in sync.

Post your opinions/ideas please.

January 31, 2010 at 20:24 #17356

Conquistador
Participant

How cool is that? This whole category idea is simply genius! What a wonderful way to work with the UI.

What an amazing idea! It is fantastic to see global SMR (YES!) but wow in addition to that the categories idea is utterly brilliant. They are like folder tracks but in this case for viewing tracks quickly from a horizontal bar AFAICT. I love the way you can easily show or hide categories. One can have one or 3 or 4 e.t.c it should never get cluttered as the user can add the categories he wants or not.

Brilliant. 😯

The global SMR pop up idea “with a list of the corresponding track names” on the button is crazy (in a really good way) 😀

Well done Frits!!!

January 31, 2010 at 21:33 #17357

thcilnnahoj
Participant

😮
I’m quite baffled a t the moment. It looks great (and so does the color theme, by the way :wink), but I’ll have to ponder some more about the balance of additional housekeeping vs. the benefits the “categorization” brings to the table. Maybe we’ll get a few ideas about disarming it – if that is necessary at all – after a beta becomes ready.

Some questions that come to mind:

1. Is there a way to add multiple tracks at once with the “+” button on the toolbar?

2. How does this work with group tracks… If you select, for example, the “Bus Returns” group track to be shown, will it automatically show its child tracks? And will it update correctly if you add more child tracks (returns in this example) to it?

3. Is it possible to have only child tracks from various groups shown, and if so, how will it affect the visual routing?

[Edit] 4. (One more): Can you go still back to the a view of all tracks, categorized or not, or do you have to create an “all-encompassing” category first yourself? If it’s the latter, will it update if you add more tracks later on?

January 31, 2010 at 22:29 #17358

Zynewave
Keymaster

@thcilnnahoj wrote:

but I’ll have to ponder some more about the balance of additional housekeeping vs. the benefits the “categorization” brings to the table. Maybe we’ll get a few ideas about disarming it – if that is necessary at all – after a beta becomes ready.

Setting up track categories will only make sense when you work with a lot of tracks. You can ignore this feature, and it will work like previous Podium releases. If you never work with a large number of tracks, you can choose to remove the track toolbar from the editor.

1. Is there a way to add multiple tracks at once with the “+” button on the toolbar?

Not currently. Clicking will open the track properties dialog, for naming the new track. If you need an initial number of tracks, isn’t it sufficient that you have the track setting in the “new arrangement” dialog?

2. How does this work with group tracks… If you select, for example, the “Bus Returns” group track to be shown, will it automatically show its child tracks? And will it update correctly if you add more child tracks (returns in this example) to it?

If you add a group track to a category, it will automatically include all child tracks.

3. Is it possible to have only child tracks from various groups shown, and if so, how will it affect the visual routing?

I haven’t implemented this yet, but I think that if you include a child track in a category, then it’s parent group track should also be displayed, at least as a collapsed track (6 pixel height). That way the hierarchic structure is intact.

[Edit] 4. (One more): Can you go still back to the a view of all tracks, categorized or not, or do you have to create an “all-encompassing” category first yourself? If it’s the latter, will it update if you add more tracks later on?

If you deselect all categories, it will show all tracks. Otherwise a track would be completely invisible if it wasn’t included in any categories. If you add a new track while you have a category selected, the track will automatically be added to that category.

January 31, 2010 at 22:41 #17359

Zynewave
Keymaster

I still have to figure out how the category buttons should react. There are at least three functions that should be available in one button: show/hide, mute and solo. Maybe the category setup should include a setting for what the primary purpose of the category is, which will be the action that a normal click on the button will do. The other functions can then be accessed with key shortcuts, or by right-clicking the category button to show an option menu.

Still a lot of design issues to consider :-k

February 1, 2010 at 00:24 #17360

UncleAge
Participant

When I was doing a larger mix a few months ago I used something like this in another app and it really sped up the process for me. I could work on getting the drums to gel without the many vocal/guitar tracks cluttering up the landscape. And vice/versa for the other tracks.

What you are planning to do differs visually. Here’s a few thoughts…

1. Would this “filter” also act on the mixer tracks as well?
2. Would the category selections be exclusive?

I ask because I found this to be most useful when working in the mixer section. It was handy while drawing automation in the tracks as well but after the project was compete I had used this feature most during the first part of mixing the tracks.

February 1, 2010 at 00:26 #17361

thcilnnahoj
Participant

Please don’t get me wrong – I greatly do want to use this feature. Only some of the added work seemed a bit cumbersome at first, and a few things could maybe be automated. Like for instance, if you had to go through all categories and enable showing newly created busses, it would quickly become more of a chore than a joy to use. It’s good news that this isn’t the case.

So one idea would be to have an (optional) set of pre-defined automatically generated categories for, e.g., tracks that hold (non-auto-assigned) input mappings, tracks that have source mappings (or maybe simpler, audio and MIDI tracks, like in the show/hide options of the mixer), automation lanes (plus their parent tracks, minimized as you said) and so on. That would be a basic but useful filter option, in my opinion… I don’t know if, or how deep you plan on getting into it.

@Zynewave wrote:

1. Is there a way to add multiple tracks at once with the “+” button on the toolbar?

Not currently. Clicking will open the track properties dialog, for naming the new track. If you need an initial number of tracks, isn’t it sufficient that you have the track setting in the “new arrangement” dialog?

Well… for once, I would take a guess most people don’t know exactly how many tracks it’s going to be in the end. That may be a kind of user error, but it still happens. The situation I sometimes find myself in personally is drum tracks. You can’t specify things like “create 2 group tracks, one with 8, the other with 6 child tracks” in the new arrangement dialog.
Maybe this is best done with track templates… I do however see multiple track creation as a rather basic function. Either way, that’s my opinion on it.

I also forgot the most important question: How it will work across different editor profiles! I hope, since you say the categories are tied to an arrangement, that the “filter” is going to work independently.

February 1, 2010 at 00:50 #17362

Malcolm Jacobson
Participant

@Zynewave wrote:

If you need an initial number of tracks, isn’t it sufficient that you have the track setting in the “new arrangement” dialog?

This works for the initial arrangement, but doesn’t work when you want to add multiple tracks to an existing arrangement. I would really like an option to “Insert N new tracks”.

I would also like the ability to select multiple tracks.

The addition of these two features would make a great improvement to the workflow, IMO.

Cheers,

Malcolm.

February 1, 2010 at 05:18 #17363

LiquidProj3ct
Participant

It seems nice. It’s unlikey I work with groups or global SMR, but I’ll do it with show/hide tracks, and I have some interest here.

I think its a good idea show some child track without show their group track. When I use Poise in percussion mode I add a group with one input child track and 8 outputs child tracks. I’d like to show only the input child track in track list (because it’s the only one useful!).

What do happens in the mixer when you hide a track? I think that a good approach here would be two check box column in Track Categories windows, one for Mixer and other for Tracks. When I use Korg M1 LE (two inputs, two outputs) I’d show in track list only the inputs, and the outputs in the mixer.

1. Is there a way to add multiple tracks at once with the “+” button on the toolbar?

It would be nice that templates can save multiple tracks too. So with only one click you could add a M1 LE with input tracks visible only in Track list, and output track in the Mixer.

And a question, what will happen with ghost notes of a hidden track?

Best regards

February 1, 2010 at 11:12 #17364

Zynewave
Keymaster

@UncleAge wrote:

1. Would this “filter” also act on the mixer tracks as well?

Yes, I think so. Perhaps there are situations where you prefer the mixer to always show all tracks, so maybe I’ll make category show/hide optional in the mixer.

2. Would the category selections be exclusive?

I ask because I found this to be most useful when working in the mixer section. It was handy while drawing automation in the tracks as well but after the project was compete I had used this feature most during the first part of mixing the tracks.

I haven’t decided yet whether clicking a category button should automatically deselect other selected categories. You would then use shift+click to select a category without deselecting the others.

What is the other DAW you refer to?

February 1, 2010 at 11:12 #17365

Conquistador
Participant

@Malcolm Jacobson wrote:

@Zynewave wrote:

If you need an initial number of tracks, isn’t it sufficient that you have the track setting in the “new arrangement” dialog?

This works for the initial arrangement, but doesn’t work when you want to add multiple tracks to an existing arrangement. I would really like an option to “Insert N new tracks”.

I would also like the ability to select multiple tracks.

The addition of these two features would make a great improvement to the workflow, IMO.

Cheers,

Malcolm.

Yes. Agreed. Good points Malcolm. IMO Frits really these are basic features. Again though so far the whole category idea is great IMO. Global SMR is great to have (especially the pop up idea which is really clever stuff)

February 1, 2010 at 11:32 #17366

Zynewave
Keymaster

@thcilnnahoj wrote:

@Zynewave wrote:

1. Is there a way to add multiple tracks at once with the “+” button on the toolbar?

Not currently. Clicking will open the track properties dialog, for naming the new track. If you need an initial number of tracks, isn’t it sufficient that you have the track setting in the “new arrangement” dialog?

Well… for once, I would take a guess most people don’t know exactly how many tracks it’s going to be in the end. That may be a kind of user error, but it still happens. The situation I sometimes find myself in personally is drum tracks. You can’t specify things like “create 2 group tracks, one with 8, the other with 6 child tracks” in the new arrangement dialog.
Maybe this is best done with track templates… I do however see multiple track creation as a rather basic function. Either way, that’s my opinion on it.

Whenever I need a set of new tracks, I create one track, press Ctrl+C and then Ctrl+V for each additional track. As long as the number of required new tracks are below 10, I think this is a faster process than selecting a “Create X new tracks” menu command to show a dialog, inputting the decimal value, and pressing enter. Using copy/paste you also preserve track settings and the effect chain. But I don’t mind adding the menu as there seems to be a demand for it. What should the menu command be called, and where would you want it?

I also forgot the most important question: How it will work across different editor profiles! I hope, since you say the categories are tied to an arrangement, that the “filter” is going to work independently.

It’s not stored in the editor profile, so switching between editors will preserve your category selection. Since it is tied to the arrangement, it also means that if you have two editor windows open, one with the tracks and the other with a mixer, then category selection is synced in both windows.

February 1, 2010 at 11:36 #17367

Zynewave
Keymaster

@Malcolm Jacobson wrote:

I would also like the ability to select multiple tracks.

I plan to implement that soon after 2.26 is released. I am sticking to working on track management in the following releases, until I think there is not much more that can be improved.

February 1, 2010 at 11:51 #17368

Zynewave
Keymaster

@LiquidProj3ct wrote:

It seems nice. It’s unlikey I work with groups or global SMR, but I’ll do it with show/hide tracks, and I have some interest here.

I think its a good idea show some child track without show their group track. When I use Poise in percussion mode I add a group with one input child track and 8 outputs child tracks. I’d like to show only the input child track in track list (because it’s the only one useful!).

What do happens in the mixer when you hide a track? I think that a good approach here would be two check box column in Track Categories windows, one for Mixer and other for Tracks. When I use Korg M1 LE (two inputs, two outputs) I’d show in track list only the inputs, and the outputs in the mixer.

1. Is there a way to add multiple tracks at once with the “+” button on the toolbar?

It would be nice that templates can save multiple tracks too. So with only one click you could add a M1 LE with input tracks visible only in Track list, and output track in the Mixer.

Hmm, I need to think about that. I fear it will make category setup more cumbersome if you need to set up the track selection separately for the tracks region and the mixer. Maybe this is better handled as an option in the track properties, instead of the category setup. Anyone else think it will be useful to have separate category setup of track lanes and mixer strips?

And a question, what will happen with ghost notes of a hidden track?

Ghost note display will work as in previous releases. Category selection will not influence the ghost notes.

February 1, 2010 at 13:37 #17370

UncleAge
Participant

@Zynewave wrote:

@UncleAge wrote:

1. Would this “filter” also act on the mixer tracks as well?

Yes, I think so. Perhaps there are situations where you prefer the mixer to always show all tracks, so maybe I’ll make category show/hide optional in the mixer.

Makes sense.

@Zynewave wrote:

@UncleAge wrote:

2. Would the category selections be exclusive?

I ask because I found this to be most useful when working in the mixer section. It was handy while drawing automation in the tracks as well but after the project was compete I had used this feature most during the first part of mixing the tracks.

I haven’t decided yet whether clicking a category button should automatically deselect other selected categories. You would then use shift+click to select a category without deselecting the others.

Sounds reasonable.

@Zynewave wrote:

What is the other DAW you refer to?

Reaper has functionality to filter tracks in the mixer and track section. However, your suggested implementation seems to be more polished and definitely more intuitive.

This is something that hadn’t been an issue for me until I had a project with a lot of tracks (well, to me it was a lot). And I definitely got some use out of it. Can’t wait to try out your take on this feature.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 66 total)

1 2 3 4 5 →

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.