Topic: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 66 total)
  • #17395
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @UncleAge wrote:

    So far so good but…
    @Zynewave wrote:

    Selecting tag buttons in the arrangement editor will show only the tagged tracks in the tracks and mixer regions.

    I see the effect in the tracks region but not in the mixer.

    @Zynewave wrote:

    … In this beta I have not yet made the mixer respond to tag selection.

    #17396
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @LiquidProj3ct wrote:

    My only problem with the new track toolbar is that it takes too many useful vertical space in podium. That’s the cause I only work with one profile, because I want to avoid vertical space waste.

    I think the height used by the track toolbar is justified since it is now possible to hide the master and bus return tracks. That leaves more space space for the normal tracks. If you assign tags to your tracks, it is also easier to navigate between sets of tracks, which reduces the need to scroll up or down.

    Maybe you could join transport tool bar and track toolbar, or give the option to add track toolbar controls to transport tool bar, or allow two toolbars in the same row, or create an special “toolbar container” which can hold two or more toolbars, or create a “free toolbar” which can have controls of any avaliable toolbar in Podium.

    The toolbar layout in the default setup is perhaps not the most space efficient layout, but it is made so that new users can easily get an overview of the workspace. Afterwards you can rearrange all the toolbars as you desire, using the profile setup.

    #17397
    Conquistador
    Participant

    Global SMR
    Fantastic. You get pop ups for Solo Mute and Record states. Nice, tight and tidy. Easy to use, gets right out of the way. Its 10 times easier for me to manage large numbers of tracks and manage solo enabled tracks across groups. Best implementation of its type anywhere IMO. No more keyboard shortcuts for this feature here. Great! :mrgreen:

    Tags
    Look, this is amazingly easy to use and it makes complex projects child play. Just a few clicks to set up your tags and that’s it. Click and go. Brilliant idea and the implementation is just as good.

    I personally think the placement and height used by the toolbar is OK.

    My only problem now is…how long this thing is going to stay in beta LOL! 🙂

    @Zynewave wrote:

    I’m curious if you still think “track filters” is a better description than “track tags”. I abandoned the “filter” description because I thought it could be confused with DSP filter processing, as in EQ plugins or synth filter sections, etc.

    I agree. Track filters as UA was saying or “filter” does indeed describe what it does but…the again “Track Tags” is shorter and does avoid the confusion with the use of “filter” and its related description for plugins elsewhere.

    Bug?
    The check button idea is great but I cannot get it to work here. It does not appear to assign/remove at all. ???

    #17398
    thcilnnahoj
    Participant

    I don’t care if you call them Track Tags, PCCTG’s or Waldschweinschnitzel in Kürbiskernpanier mit Braterdäpfeln und Preiselbeerkompott – this feature is absolutely divine! 😀

    I actually like how the tracks region is separated from the timeline, marker and tempo regions. The check buttons are also a great idea, though I’d never have understood what they do if it weren’t for popup help. 😉
    If there’re still free keys, maybe Alt-click could be used to quickly unselect all tags.

    Three peculiarities I’ve seen:

    1. Say I have a group track for vocals, and in it, there’s a single track that I assigned my “lead instruments” tag to. If the group is collapsed, then I only see the minimized child track if I select the tag, and the only way to expand the group track in this view is with keyboard shortcuts (which is not a problem for me, personally).

    I don’t know if this would work, but here’s my suggestion to “smarten” it up a little: If a track that belongs to a group is tagged, always expand its group upon selecting the tag. Granted, the group stays expanded after this, but I think it’s worth trading this annoyance for the other… This is for when you show child tracks only – there shouldn’t be a problem if a group is tagged as a whole.

    2. Select a track -> remove the selected tag from it by clicking on the tag’s check button -> the next track with this tag is automatically selected (look for the active selection color). However, it is actually the track that was just unchecked that still has key focus and thus is selected (as also seen by the unchecked tag mark)!

    [Edit] 2.1. Closely related… Select a track (example track has the “vocals” tag) -> select a different tag the track does not belong to (“rhythm section” in this example) -> the first track with this tag will appear as selected, but the tags are not correctly checked off. The vocal track also still has keyboard focus. So switching tags should either force the selection on the track that appears as selected, or should not show a track as selected when it isn’t, in my opinion. :-k

    3. If I create a track, it’s invisible at first. You said it would inherit the currently selected tag (or tags?) – maybe it’s just not implemented yet.

    #17399
    H-man
    Participant

    @thcilnnahoj wrote:

    I don’t care if you call them Track Tags, PCCTG’s or Waldschweinschnitzel in Kürbiskernpanier mit Braterdäpfeln und Preiselbeerkompott – this feature is absolutely divine! 😀

    I LOL’ed.

    #17401
    thcilnnahoj
    Participant

    I remembered it was actually Petersilerdäpfel – the preferred side dish in Schnitzelland. Except for French fries.

    (ahem) Can I just quickly mention how much I want the tags to be saved right now? O:)

    #17406
    thcilnnahoj
    Participant

    In the meantime, I’ve got three minor strange occurences to report:

    1. Auto-scrolling to a track in the arrangement view doesn’t scroll far enough, about 2-3 pixels short. Example GIF, in which I make it scroll to the topmost track. There’s still a tiny bit of way left to scroll up (or down). Probably the shadows! 😛

    2. The topmost position the navigator zoom pane can be dragged upwards is further down than it’s possible to scroll by other means. Again, a few pixels. Example GIF here.

    3. Normally, the navigator zoom snapshot buttons light up when you return to one of their zoom settings. This doesn’t seem to work though if you zoom to the full arrangement length by double-clicking the zoom pane. In the example GIF, I can get the snapshot button to activate after moving the pane around, but not anymore after zooming in and double-clicking to return to the original zoom level.

    #17408
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    Beta2 is up. The tags are now saved in the pod file. Please backup your projects before saving with this beta.

    I’ve made the mixer respond to tag selection, and also made various fixes and adjustments. I’m aware that there are some issues with selection and adding of new tracks, but so far I’m just trying to figure out how the track filtering feature should behave.

    Creating new arrangements will no longer put the return tracks in a “bus return” group, but will just create single return tracks on the same group level as the normal tracks. The default setup is modified to not have the bus returns docked in the mixer. I’ve done this because I think it simplifies the track layout. With the new “busses” tag it is easy to show/hide bus returns, so having them docked is not necessary I think. I have often also wanted a possibility to hide the docked bus return tracks in the mixer, to get more space for the normal tracks. That is now possible with the “busses” tag.

    Another thing I’m going to implement for the busses, is a “Do you want to create a bus return track for the new bus send?” yes/no messagebox which will appear when you add a bus send that does not yet have a return assigned. That gets rid of the manual work you previously had to do when adding extra sends to your arrangement.

    I’ve also thought about further extensions to the tag properties in the tags dialog, that could be introduced in a future update. These would appear below the “include child tracks…” option in the dialog, and they can be set for each tag:

    A combobox with the options: “Filter both track lanes and mixer strips”, “Filter only track lanes”, “Filter only mixer strips”. This would for example allow setting up a tag for audio output only tracks (for multiple output plugins), and have those tracks appear only in the mixer and not as empty track lanes. Likewise, you could have a tag for making MIDI tracks appear as lanes but not as mixer strips.

    A second combobox with the options: “Add to selection”, “Subtract from selection”, “Combine with existing selection”. The “add to selection” is how the tags behave currently. The other options would be a way to filter out tracks from the currently displayed tagged tracks. You could have a tag called “Hide multi-outs”, which uses the “subtract…” option and is assigned to all tracks that are plugin multi-outputs. If you have a “drums” tag selected to show all your drum tracks, then selecting the “hide multi-outs” tag will hide the drum tracks that are included in the “hide multi-out” tag.

    Maybe those options are taking it a bit too far, and will just cause confusion. Let me know what you think.

    #17409
    LiquidProj3ct
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    The default setup is modified to not have the bus returns docked in the mixer. I’ve done this because I think it simplifies the track layout. With the new “busses” tag it is easy to show/hide bus returns, so having them docked is not necessary I think.

    Very cool 🙂

    A combobox with the options: “Filter both track lanes and mixer strips”, “Filter only track lanes”, “Filter only mixer strips”. This would for example allow setting up a tag for audio output only tracks (for multiple output plugins), and have those tracks appear only in the mixer and not as empty track lanes. Likewise, you could have a tag for making MIDI tracks appear as lanes but not as mixer strips.

    Frits, why don’t you use a simple second column of check boxes (or another listbox) for mixer tracks instead those comboboxes? You can add too a global checkbox that links arrangement tracks with mixer ones, then when it would be turned on, if you check or uncheck a track (mixer or arrangement) they would be checked or unchecked both. It would be more fun and quick that selecting a different option for each combobox each time you need to make a change.

    Best regards

    #17410
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @LiquidProj3ct wrote:

    A combobox with the options: “Filter both track lanes and mixer strips”, “Filter only track lanes”, “Filter only mixer strips”. This would for example allow setting up a tag for audio output only tracks (for multiple output plugins), and have those tracks appear only in the mixer and not as empty track lanes. Likewise, you could have a tag for making MIDI tracks appear as lanes but not as mixer strips.

    Frits, why don’t you use a simple second column of check boxes (or another listbox) for mixer tracks instead those comboboxes? You can add too a global checkbox that links arrangement tracks with mixer ones, then when it would be turned on, if you check or uncheck a track (mixer or arrangement) they would be checked or unchecked both. It would be more fun and quick that selecting a different option for each combobox each time you need to make a change.

    Because I feel that will complicate the basic tag usage, when you don’t need the separation between lane/strip. If it should be possible to assign tags to tracks in two different ways (lane/strip), then there really should be two check buttons inside each tag button in the toolbar. Every time you want to assign a tag to a track, you are forced to consider whether you want it both on the lane and strip. I think that is going to be a mess. I’d like to keep the basic usage of tags as simple as possible.

    #17412
    thcilnnahoj
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    Creating new arrangements will no longer put the return tracks in a “bus return” group, but will just create single return tracks on the same group level as the normal tracks.

    Sounds good, as it means more space, but I hope there’ll be some way around assigning new bus tracks to the busses tag by hand.

    Another thing I’m going to implement for the busses, is a “Do you want to create a bus return track for the new bus send?” yes/no messagebox which will appear when you add a bus send that does not yet have a return assigned. That gets rid of the manual work you previously had to do when adding extra sends to your arrangement.

    Pardon me if we’re talking different things, but I seem to remember Podium creating both send and return mappings all along, when using the devices menu, as well as selecting ‘new instance’ from the right-click menu?

    Something that seems to have gone a bit awry in beta 2:
    (As before, the vocal track belongs to a group which isn’t shown in this tag selection)

    Another idea I had is a ‘tags’ button in the track properties window that opens when you create a new track: It could expand a simplified tag list panel to the side, so you could assign tags right at (multiple ) track creation. the panel should remember its state (shown/hidden) after closing the dialog, to be always there for people when they need it, and others who don’t use track tags won’t have to bother with it. Once your tags are set up, this might be even a little quicker than creating ten new tracks and ticking them one by one.

    Oh, and I think it’d be nice if child tracks of a tagged group track would show greyed-out tick marks in the track tags window, whenever ‘include child tracks…’ is checked. You’d much more easily see where the group you’re tagging ends, and I imagine you can get a little lost once you reach 30+ tracks.

    #17413
    LiquidProj3ct
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    @LiquidProj3ct wrote:

    Frits, why don’t you use a simple second column of check boxes (or another listbox) for mixer tracks instead those comboboxes? You can add too a global checkbox that links arrangement tracks with mixer ones, then when it would be turned on, if you check or uncheck a track (mixer or arrangement) they would be checked or unchecked both. It would be more fun and quick that selecting a different option for each combobox each time you need to make a change.

    Because I feel that will complicate the basic tag usage, when you don’t need the separation between lane/strip. If it should be possible to assign tags to tracks in two different ways (lane/strip), then there really should be two check buttons inside each tag button in the toolbar. Every time you want to assign a tag to a track, you are forced to consider whether you want it both on the lane and strip. I think that is going to be a mess. I’d like to keep the basic usage of tags as simple as possible.

    Ohm, you’re thinking on the new toolbar, and I’m thinking in the tag config windows. I don’t know, I don’t see it too difficult if I have a checkbox turned on by default that links lane and strip visible state each time you change them in the tag config window, while the toolbar minibuttons should act always as link checkbox were on. Maybe I’m missing something 😐

    #17414
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @thcilnnahoj wrote:

    @Zynewave wrote:

    Creating new arrangements will no longer put the return tracks in a “bus return” group, but will just create single return tracks on the same group level as the normal tracks.

    Sounds good, as it means more space, but I hope there’ll be some way around assigning new bus tracks to the busses tag by hand.

    If you let Podium create the bus return track (as per your next question), then it should be automatically included in the “busses” tag.

    Another thing I’m going to implement for the busses, is a “Do you want to create a bus return track for the new bus send?” yes/no messagebox which will appear when you add a bus send that does not yet have a return assigned. That gets rid of the manual work you previously had to do when adding extra sends to your arrangement.

    Pardon me if we’re talking different things, but I seem to remember Podium creating both send and return mappings all along, when using the devices menu, as well as selecting ‘new instance’ from the right-click menu?

    I’m talking about bus return tracks, not mappings. Currently when you first time assign a new bus send to a track, you need to manually go create the corresponding bus return track.

    Something that seems to have gone a bit awry in beta 2:
    (As before, the vocal track belongs to a group which isn’t shown in this tag selection)

    Try the new beta3. I’ve made it so that tagged tracks that are part of a hidden/collapsed group, is now always shown. Check if you still get the visual bug as in your screenshot, and then tell me how your track hierarchy is. Note that in beta2 I dropped the implicit display of collapsed parent tracks for tagged child tracks. So, if a tag includes tracks from different groups, the tracks are not displayed with their actual hierarchy relations. It saves the space used for unneeded parent tracks. In beta1, the master track was always shown as collapsed at the top, which was annoying.

    Another idea I had is a ‘tags’ button in the track properties window that opens when you create a new track: It could expand a simplified tag list panel to the side, so you could assign tags right at (multiple ) track creation. the panel should remember its state (shown/hidden) after closing the dialog, to be always there for people when they need it, and others who don’t use track tags won’t have to bother with it. Once your tags are set up, this might be even a little quicker than creating ten new tracks and ticking them one by one.

    Oh, and I think it’d be nice if child tracks of a tagged group track would show greyed-out tick marks in the track tags window, whenever ‘include child tracks…’ is checked. You’d much more easily see where the group you’re tagging ends, and I imagine you can get a little lost once you reach 30+ tracks.

    When I implement multiple track selection, you would just select all the tracks you want tagged, and then click the tag check button to assign the tag to all selected tracks.

    #17416
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @LiquidProj3ct wrote:

    @Zynewave wrote:

    @LiquidProj3ct wrote:

    Frits, why don’t you use a simple second column of check boxes (or another listbox) for mixer tracks instead those comboboxes? You can add too a global checkbox that links arrangement tracks with mixer ones, then when it would be turned on, if you check or uncheck a track (mixer or arrangement) they would be checked or unchecked both. It would be more fun and quick that selecting a different option for each combobox each time you need to make a change.

    Because I feel that will complicate the basic tag usage, when you don’t need the separation between lane/strip. If it should be possible to assign tags to tracks in two different ways (lane/strip), then there really should be two check buttons inside each tag button in the toolbar. Every time you want to assign a tag to a track, you are forced to consider whether you want it both on the lane and strip. I think that is going to be a mess. I’d like to keep the basic usage of tags as simple as possible.

    Ohm, you’re thinking on the new toolbar, and I’m thinking in the tag config windows. I don’t know, I don’t see it too difficult if I have a checkbox turned on by default that links lane and strip visible state each time you change them in the tag config window, while the toolbar minibuttons should act always as link checkbox were on. Maybe I’m missing something 😐

    The toolbar check buttons are shortcuts to the check buttons in the tags dialog. You could say that clicking a toolbar tag check button will toggle both the lane/strip option, but then how should the check button display which of the four states that the tag is currently assigned as? (none, lane, strip, lane+strip).

    #17417
    thcilnnahoj
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    I’m talking about bus return tracks, not mappings. Currently when you first time assign a new bus send to a track, you need to manually go create the corresponding bus return track.

    Ah, suddenly, it makes sense. 😳

    Try the new beta3. I’ve made it so that tagged tracks that are part of a hidden/collapsed group, is now always shown. Check if you still get the visual bug as in your screenshot, and then tell me how your track hierarchy is. Note that in beta2 I dropped the implicit display of collapsed parent tracks for tagged child tracks. So, if a tag includes tracks from different groups, the tracks are not displayed with their actual hierarchy relations. It saves the space used for unneeded parent tracks. In beta1, the master track was always shown as collapsed at the top, which was annoying.

    It’s the same in beta 3, unfortunately. The hierarchy consists of: Master < Vocals group track < Lead Vocal track. This glitch happens when the "lead vocal" track is shown (without its direct parent group) along with the master track.

    I think it’s fine to omit group tracks when only child tracks should be shown. Besides, it looks very nice without the master track. 😉

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