Topic: Preview 2.33: Time-stretching of note and curve sequences

This topic has 16 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 4 months ago by thcilnnahoj.

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June 30, 2010 at 23:02 #2287
Zynewave
Keymaster
Beta1 is available in the VIP lounge. Changes so far:
- Time-stretching is now supported for note and curve sequence events on tracks. Hovering the mouse over a sequence event will show two new stretch drag handles above the resize drag handles. Dragging the stretch handles will compress or expand the playback of the events within the sequences. Stretching will not affect the events within the sequences, so you can use phantom copies of the same sequence, each with a different stretch factor.
- When a sequence event has been stretched, the stretch factor is written in parentheses in the event header.
- Emphasized the coloring of the parameter track automation curve overlaid on the timeline.
- Added “Tap Tempo” button to the tempo event dialog.
- Fix: Using the “snap to previous grid line” and “snap relative to grid” options in combination would cause erratic jumps when resizing the end of events.
Let me know what you think of the time-stretching, and if you have suggestions for improvements. I am going to check this for bugs the next couple of days. I plan to release 2.33 this weekend, unless you guys come up with wild suggestions.

Also, let me know what you think about the “Emphasized the coloring of the parameter track automation curve overlaid on the timeline.” change. Previously the automation curve could be almost invisible with certain color combinations. The curve is now painted with the “Timeline Text” color and alpha blended on top of the events. This looks better, but takes a bit more CPU to draw. Let me know if you find that the UI painting has slowed noticeably.

Note that the stretch factor on each event is not yet saved in the .pod project file.
June 30, 2010 at 23:31 #18669

4mica
Participant

Good god, that was fast. Ready to run with it right now, thanks much!

July 1, 2010 at 04:44 #18671

thcilnnahoj
Participant

What can I say – I love it already! :D/

A possible suggestion I have would be a somehow more obvious way of marking time-stretched events (will be even more useful for audio later on), though I can’t think of any right now. The way the waveform gets a colored frame in Logic is nice, but might not be applicable as well to whole events.

Something that would be handy is a ‘reset’ command to return the event to its original setting. When I gave it a spin just now it was a bit fiddly sometimes to get the original timing back (you suddenly have to do math! :lol:). It would probably be easier to delete an event and replace it with a non-stretched copy, but only as long as it’s not unique.

I also hope that the resize/fade handles will be made more distinguishable, should you redesign them at some point.

Tap tempo: It would be much more useful if you could hear the tempo change while playing – I remember reading that this would require some rewriting, so maybe some other day. Also, when applying a tempo change to the current section that’s playing, this can result in stuck notes.

July 1, 2010 at 06:30 #18672

LiquidProj3ct
Participant

@thcilnnahoj wrote:

Something that would be handy is a ‘reset’ command to return the event to its original setting. When I gave it a spin just now it was a bit fiddly sometimes to get the original timing back (you suddenly have to do math! :lol:). It would probably be easier to delete an event and replace it with a non-stretched copy, but only as long as it’s not unique.

I also hope that the resize/fade handles will be made more distinguishable, should you redesign them at some point.

I share these thoughts with thcilnnahoj. The timestretch cursor could be a hand, or something like that. So you could see clearly what you’re doing.

Additionally, do you remember my Autocad high-precision picture in the 2.32 thread? I realized that if a note is pretty close to absolute snap point, ie, 95% of a 1/16th note, you only have a 2.5% (5/2)to resize it until the absolute snap point (B1). The solution would be move “Bx” to the half of snap current value + “Ax” current position.

The new colour of curves sequences doesn’t seem good with my current skin (Evergreen)

Why don’t you create a new colour entry for note and curve preview on clips?

July 1, 2010 at 16:16 #18675

thcilnnahoj
Participant

Here’s a video showing two strange things I noticed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfvgtDTNdUI

I hope you’ll see what I mean, otherwise I’ll have to whip out a microphone next time around. 🙂

1. Contents of events that have been time-stretched (and cut?) don’t sound, this also seems dependant on the playing start position.

2. When a time-stretched event is resized from the start, the original position of notes inside seems to change in unexpected ways. Don’t know if this is intentional – looks pretty weird to me.

As for the automation curve coloring, allow me to point to three posts starting from this one: http://www.zynewave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=16579#16579

The changed coloring in 2.33 makes it neither better nor worse for me, personally. I’m fine with either for the moment.

July 3, 2010 at 00:14 #18701

Zynewave
Keymaster

Beta2:

Fixed all bugs I’m aware of. Let me know if you find more.

While dragging a stretch handle the stretched sequence will be painted translucent on top of the track events. The stretch factor is written at the bottom of the dragged event.

Added “Reset Time-Stretch” command to the edit menu.

The time-stretch factor is now saved in the project file.

July 3, 2010 at 07:29 #18704

thcilnnahoj
Participant

More on the coloring…

The white curve (white timeline text) is harder to see sometimes on brightly colored events, like in Liquid’s picture.
I can work around this by adjusting the parameter track luminance setting, but that doesn’t help when an event is selected, and it’s especially bad when highlighted.

(Sorry, I like my monochrome selection colors :wink:)

This doesn’t fix it, but maybe a color or luminance setting for the curve separate from timeline text will do for now?

Edit: Another small color problem with the time-stretch text (ex.: default theme, my current theme, paper theme).

July 3, 2010 at 12:12 #18706

LiquidProj3ct
Participant

Anyway, if fonts are dark and curve are bright you only will see one of them. The wisest solution would be a user customizable colour for all those curves/audio/midi clips.

July 4, 2010 at 01:04 #18709

Zynewave
Keymaster

Beta3 is up.

When moving/resizing/stretching events, the color of the mask is now semi-transparent black with white graphcs and text on top. This should work with all color setups, except if you have set the color of the timeline or events to complete black.

I’ve also finished my code review and test of the new stretch functionality, so let me know if you find bugs.

I’m going to spend a day or two updating the guide, and then release 2.33.

July 4, 2010 at 17:33 #18718

thcilnnahoj
Participant

@Zynewave wrote:

When moving/resizing/stretching events, the color of the mask is now semi-transparent black with white graphcs and text on top. This should work with all color setups, except if you have set the color of the timeline or events to complete black.

It also improves visibility of what you’re moving by a long shot – very nice! 8)

Here’s something I found: During time-stretching a MIDI event, the ‘preview’ of its contents looks as if the notes changed octave when you stretch it by certain factors (seems to depend on the notes and event length; arrangement vertical zoom doesn’t matter) – GIF animation (100 KB).

Possibly due to the shadows, there’s a tiny delay added to some operations like switching editor profiles or zoom snapshots. Resizing of tracks is also a little less smooth than before. As always, I have a perfectly adequate graphics card, but it seems it doesn’t get called to help.

July 6, 2010 at 00:58 #18732

Zynewave
Keymaster

@thcilnnahoj wrote:

Here’s something I found: During time-stretching a MIDI event, the ‘preview’ of its contents looks as if the notes changed octave when you stretch it by certain factors (seems to depend on the notes and event length; arrangement vertical zoom doesn’t matter) – GIF animation (100 KB).

Fixed.

Possibly due to the shadows, there’s a tiny delay added to some operations like switching editor profiles or zoom snapshots. Resizing of tracks is also a little less smooth than before. As always, I have a perfectly adequate graphics card, but it seems it doesn’t get called to help.

I think this is due to the alpha blending that I introduced to the curve sequences, and not the event drop shadows. Unless you also see the slow performance in the 2.32 release?

In the new beta4 I have made some changes to the way that the automation curve is drawn. It no longer uses alpha blending, so let me know if you still see a slower performance.

July 6, 2010 at 07:52 #18737

thcilnnahoj
Participant

It’s still generally slower in beta 4 as in 2.32, too, but it becomes really apparent with lots of events visible (not that many, though)…

The curve looks good now. That should really cover all possible situations (except when you use dark events on dark background with dark text, or make it all bright).

July 6, 2010 at 09:21 #18738

Trancit
Participant

Could you consider to implement the midi preview from the browser???

Only sending the midi file data to the selected track…nothing more 8)

Trancit

July 6, 2010 at 10:21 #18741

Zynewave
Keymaster

@Trancit wrote:

Could you consider to implement the midi preview from the browser???

Only sending the midi file data to the selected track…nothing more 8)

It doesn’t really fit into the current set of changes I’m making. I need to focus my development on specific areas at a time. I will look at MIDI file audition on the next update of the browser.

July 7, 2010 at 09:56 #18750

thcilnnahoj
Participant

@Zynewave wrote:

@thcilnnahoj wrote:

Here’s something I found: During time-stretching a MIDI event, the ‘preview’ of its contents looks as if the notes changed octave when you stretch it by certain factors (seems to depend on the notes and event length; arrangement vertical zoom doesn’t matter) – GIF animation (100 KB).

Fixed.

Don’t know if it was supposed to be fixed in beta 4 already, but it’s still there. Also, the notes seem to disappear when stretching (well, shrinking) events which don’t start with a note. Both are shown in this GIF (320 KB)!

Also also, converting events to unique cropped copies doesn’t always work correctly when the event is “time-contracted” – notes/automation points get cut off.

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