Topic: Preview: Zynewave zReverb

This topic has 27 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 18 years, 6 months ago by Conquistador.

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May 5, 2006 at 16:28 #820

Zynewave
Keymaster

I started experimenting with reverb technologies last week. I got carried away, so it seems zReverb is going to happen sooner than expected. The plugin is based on a combination of early reflections and diffuse reverberation modules. I think it sounds ok, but I’m very interested in your opinions of the mp3 file linked below.

The screenshot shows the zReverb editor. There’s a display that illustrates the room dimensions with draggable handles for the position of the microphone and up to two sources (L and R in stereo setup).

I’ve done a lot to minimize clicks and other artifacts when changing parameters. Most parameters can be automated smoothly. In the mp3 you will hear some distortion when the room size is automated.

The mp3 plays a MIDI file of “Clair De Lune” on solo piano using the GPO instrument plugin. First couple of seconds is the dry sound. The listener position is then automated so that it moves in a circle round back the piano. When stopped close to the source with the front facing the piano the room size is automated to huge, small, and back to medium. The angle of the microphone is finally rotated 360 degrees with a short pause halfway.

As mentioned in a previous topic, the primary goal with the z plugins is ease of use so I have kept the number of parameters to a minimum. E.g. the room dimension/reflection settings will control both the early reflections and the reverberation module, thereby eliminating a few user parameters. I am unsure whether to leave out e.g. a lo/hi-pass filter section. There is a low-pass filter built into the reverb, but maybe users would like to adjust reverberation bass frequencies?

Any comments on what parameters you find essential in a reverb plugin will be appreciated.

Click here for zReverb mp3 demo

May 5, 2006 at 17:46 #6676

Technophobia
Participant

Hi Frits

I’ve listened to the mp3 a few times and although its difficult to tell from an mp3 (curse those people that thought of mp3 compression) it does sound pretty good.
I can’t really hear much of an mettalic artifact to the reverb (again could be down to the mp3 process discarding the lower masked bits) so I am assuming you havn’t used the Shroeder process.

I think the amount of parameters you’ve made available is about right. Too many editable parameters can get in the way of creating a good sound anyhow. I’ve often spent 15 minutes tweaking away on all manner of parameters on reverbs I use, to find that I almost always end up just tweaking the basics to get that sound I wanted in the first place. 😆

More important (to me at least) is being able to automate parameters and as you have pointed out, the more you minimse the clicks etc on that, the better.

Looks and sounds good to me, but then as work in a machine shop all day without lighting, I can’t see or hear a damn thing anyway…just kidding 😉

Technophobia

May 5, 2006 at 19:06 #6677

darcyb62
Participant

Looks pretty cool. I’ll take a listen tonight when I have a better audio environment. As far as a parameters, I can’t say that I can offer much. With other reverbs I use I just go through the presets until I find one I like and thats about it, so for me the simpler the better.

May 5, 2006 at 20:42 #6680

Conquistador
Participant

@Zynewave wrote:

I started experimenting with reverb technologies last week. I got carried away, so it seems zReverb is going to happen sooner than expected. The plugin is based on a combination of early reflections and diffuse reverberation modules. I think it sounds ok, but I’m very interested in your opinions of the mp3 file linked below.

I could not really here any distortion having heard it. Maybe a higher quality file might sound different.

I am unsure whether to leave out e.g. a lo/hi-pass filter section. There is a low-pass filter built into the reverb, but maybe users would like to adjust reverberation bass frequencies?

I would not mind adjusting reverberation bass frequencies but frankly the simpler the better, a good range of presets will probably reduce the need for users to tweak it anyway. You can always add more features later if required.

May 5, 2006 at 21:06 #6683

Zynewave
Keymaster

I could not really here any distortion having heard it. Maybe a higher quality file might sound different.

Maybe distortion is the wrong word. There are obvious clicks/pops when the room size is automated.

May 5, 2006 at 21:17 #6686

Conquistador
Participant

@Zynewave wrote:

I could not really here any distortion having heard it. Maybe a higher quality file might sound different.

Maybe distortion is the wrong word. There are obvious clicks/pops when the room size is automated.

Ok but…

I’ve done a lot to minimize clicks and other artifacts when changing parameters.

Any reason why there were/are issues with clicks and pops anyway while automating this plug? Simply unavoidable or just too early in the development of the plug so far to remove completely?

May 5, 2006 at 21:24 #6687

Zynewave
Keymaster

Any reason why there were/are issues with clicks and pops anyway while automating this plug? Simply unavoidable or just too early in the development of the plug so far to remove completely?

I’ve minimized the artifacts when changing room dimensions, but I don’t plan on improving it further. That would require a lot of work and would also require more CPU power when parameters are changed. I think I’ve done enough to allow room modifications during preset design without having to turn down the output. Some of the Reverb plugins I’ve tried produce LOUD noises when changing parameters.

May 5, 2006 at 21:51 #6691

Max
Participant

I like the sound.

And I think that would be nice to have a LP/HP filter as a part of zReverb (HP to prevent muddy reverb tails).

May 6, 2006 at 11:28 #6704

Conquistador
Participant

@Zynewave wrote:

I’ve minimized the artifacts when changing room dimensions, but I don’t plan on improving it further. That would require a lot of work and would also require more CPU power when parameters are changed. I think I’ve done enough to allow room modifications during preset design without having to turn down the output. Some of the Reverb plugins I’ve tried produce LOUD noises when changing parameters.

Ok, in that case I agree it probably is better to leave things as is. There are certainly more pressing issues to be addressed feature wise in Podium.

The zReverb however is another very welcome addition. Very few hosts at this price point ship with their own reverb and EQ plugs that integrate graphically as well as the zplugs do in Podium for instance.

Also these plugs are no doubt given the same level of development time needed to avoid needless bugs.

Hopefully new users will approach Podium with additional plug in cost savings in mind, now that two quality plugs will be on offer as well now, with more hopefully to come. 😉

May 7, 2006 at 00:03 #6716

CPB
Participant

Sounds great! When do we get our mitts on it? 😉

@Max wrote:

And I think that would be nice to have a LP/HP filter as a part of zReverb (HP to prevent muddy reverb tails).

Seconded: Whilst I appreciate the need to keep the parameters to an absolute minimum, I think variable LP/HP filters are an essential.

May 7, 2006 at 11:49 #6719

Zynewave
Keymaster

@Technophobia wrote:

I’ve listened to the mp3 a few times and although its difficult to tell from an mp3 (curse those people that thought of mp3 compression) it does sound pretty good.
I can’t really hear much of an mettalic artifact to the reverb (again could be down to the mp3 process discarding the lower masked bits) so I am assuming you havn’t used the Shroeder process.

Actually so far I am using the standard Shroeder implementation for the late reverberation. However, yesterday I tried running vocals through it and noticed the distinct metallic timbre. I’m going to try alternative implementations, and experiment with modulation.

Sounds great! When do we get our mitts on it?

I think I can spend a lot of time experimenting and fine-tuning before I’ll be satisfied. Perhaps a beta will be ready in a week.

May 7, 2006 at 21:27 #6721

Joachim
Participant

I just heard the mp3 demo, and I must say.. WHOA! It sounds like a millon dollars! 8)

Yes, please give me control over low frequencies in the reverb. Perhaps even provide control over cutoff frequencies for the two crossover bands as well? GUI-wise, this could be solved by having two parameter knobs on two rows. Name them”DampHigh” and “DampLow” for instance? This is how I “see” it.

The reverb, as it sounds now, has a very nice and warm character.
As a contrast, if attenuation control over low frequencies is provided, very cold sounding atmospheres will be in easy reach too.

For now, I only have two questions:
How do you weight flexibillity against ease of use?
What ranges does the parameters have?

The artifacts you mention.. I like ’em, no kidding! I’m looking forward to using this as a special diffuser effect for wierd ambient sounds using very small room sizes… 😉

Oh, and the clicking noises upon room size change? Negligible!
It even outperforms the RV-7000 in Reason 😮

Exellent work Frits! 😀
Looking forward to work with this.
/Joachim

May 7, 2006 at 21:59 #6723

Zynewave
Keymaster

How do you weight flexibillity against ease of use?

It’s always a compromise.

What ranges does the parameters have?

The room size can be up to 6400 m2, 80 m height. And all the way down to 1 m3.

May 17, 2006 at 00:55 #6751

Zynewave
Keymaster

An update on the zReverb progress:

Whew, I guess I could have chosen a more simple type of effect for the second plugin in the z suite 😉

Although I worked at TC Electronic for seven years, I was never involved in reverb algorithm design, so this has been a learning experience for me. Luckily the internet provides all the information needed. The basic components in zReverb were done a week ago, but the finetuning can take forever. I am pleased with the quality/performance at present, so now I only need a day or two to complete the editor and then I’ll release a zReverb beta version.

May 17, 2006 at 07:50 #6753

Conquistador
Participant

@Zynewave wrote:

An update on the zReverb progress:

Whew, I guess I could have chosen a more simple type of effect for the second plugin in the z suite 😉

He he…well at least you tried! It looks like a great first effort to me, especially if you knew little of this particular type of plug in development previously.

Thanks for the update.

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