sobaka.
Zynewave@thcilnnahoj wrote:
I’d be very interested to hear Frits’ thoughts on the UI matter, seeing as it should be quite exciting for him. 😉
I noticed all the standard menu buttons are missing in the screenshots – those are one of the conventions I was talking about. We all know how to do it by mouse or keyboard, but how do you reach the functions on a touchscreen? What about buttons that are always visible, like tool buttons, drop-down menus and such – is it reasonable to take them along to the “new world”, or are they better off only appearing when needed (just for example, as a single tool button stuck to the right screen edge that expands into a palette when you hover over it/draw some gesture)?
There are certainly issues with touch-input that requires added functionality in the UI, mainly due to the lack of a mouse cursor. There will need to be a “Use touch-input instead of mouse” option in the Podium settings (when running on Windows). When enabled, the mouse cursor is hidden, and various UI features change behaviour. With a mouse cursor you can position your input over a button without actually clicking the button. This works for showing popup help and other highlighting, such as the zoom snapshot buttons. When using touch-input this will not work.
With a mouse cursor you can be more precise, because you can “home in” on what you want to click. With touch-input it is practically impossible to reliably click for example the drag handles on sequence events, or the point event handles in the curve editor. I’ll need to implement popup controls with larger drag handles, that will appear when clicking events.
Lots of things to work out, and yes, it’s an interesting job for a UI designer. 🙂
Zynewave@Trancit wrote:
I don´t know…I believe, that “serious” but as well creative producer will not use a mobile phone or pad as much as you think in the next 5-10 years…and development of cpu´s for mobile hardware will very soon reach their limit in point of cooling…remember how much cooling you need in actual PC´s for the given power, that´s impossible to realize in mobile hardware, even laptop´s are far behind “normal” PCs…
Perhaps apps like Rebirth or some instruments with a midisequencer have a chance to be niche product but not more…
I expect to find that the current generation of tablets cannot handle Podium beyond a few tracks. As I mentioned, I’m doing this experiment in preparation for future generation tablets. Looking back at the last few years, it seems that the smartphone processors have multiplied in speed at the same rate as Intel CPUs. They may hit a performance block at some point, but I don’t see signs of it yet. Also note, that I’m doing this mainly to work out the touch-input issues. It may well be that Windows 8 or 9 and Intel chips will be the preferred platform for tablet musicians 5 years from now.
Anyway, it´s you, who decides, but I´d like to know, what do you plan for the future of Podium, what are your priorities for the further development of Podium and all the existing feature requests…
It seems, you don´t like to talk about this, you mostly say, that this or this is on the to-do list, but I´d like to know, what we can expect in nearer future.
Reaper 4 prerelease circle has started and atm Podium falls more and more behind…too much finetuning, which is important as well, but regardless of all the gaps, which need to filled…
Perhaps, you can tell us a little bit more about your personal plans of this product beside this poll topic…
If I publish a list of “things to come within 6 months”, then I assume you would expect me to fulfill that time schedule. New users seeing such a list may purchase a Podium license, expecting to have a certain feature within a few months. If that is going to work, I would no longer be able to adjust the development short-term according to user discussions on this forum. The next 2.40 release has bug-fixes that took an unexpectedly long time to find. So bug-fixes would also occur on a less frequent basis, if I needed to follow a time schedule.
I prefer to work with a dynamic development schedule. That’s possible because I am a one-man developer team. If users would prefer that I publish a release schedule for new features, I cannot be as responsive to feature requests on this forum.
khaosI think you’re dreaming if you think that 95% of music will be made with a primary mobile devices in 5 years..
If you want to target creative musicians, built a matrix like interface in Podium like there is in Ableton Live, put in OSC support, add a sampler, a looper…
H-man@Zynewave wrote:
@H-man wrote:
I am intrigued buy the multi-touch aspect tho, and would be pretty enthusiastic about a remote-control capability for the “full-version”. Given the challenges of instruments etc, could this be a half-way step to full mobility?
If you mean an app that can show and control the UI of Podium running on your PC, then that is an entirely different app that would require extensive coding. For that purpose I would suggest trying some of the many available remote-desktop connection apps.
Sooo ..do you expect to integrate the touch features with the main app as well as the mobile app?
I really like the idea of being able to use multi-touch for midi/paramter curve editing.
ConquistadorMy thoughts on it 😉
Firts you are a UI genius! 😛 The screenshots look great. 🙂
Zynewave going forward
If you really feel this is a necessary step then I guess it is something you have to do. The future of musicmaking is somewhat fuzzy still but clearly there is a very strong demand for Touch based devices…especially the iPad. I think you should pursue it personally to better prepare for Podium for that touch based future.
Time
This is where it gets tricky. How much time should be spent on Mobium vs. current Podium (Windows) development? If too much time is spent on future preparation you might lose what market share you have on current tech / OS that is available today.
Growing to a halt?
I have noticed over the last month or so that the number of forum members is growing steadily and I would say quicker than at any time before. Podium Free is IMO the main reason for that. But the monthly competitions have stopped. Consistency is key here, Podium free is perhaps much more desirable than you currently perceive it. Likely the best and most effective marketing tool you have currently. Would also help drive awareness for Mobium as a sister product.
iOS is a juggernaut now
iOS is big news now as well as Android. Watch out for Chrome in 2011 as well. Indeed I would say iOS is far more important than OSX now for Apple so positioning Zynewave now to take advantage of what might be the most popular OS at some point soon, is a very good idea IMO.
But ATM I think you would almost need to have a finished product ready for Android and iOS to really compete in that space. None of the major Host devs have moved into that space yet so there is a huge incentive IMO, to get there first but you might alienate your core user base chasing that goal to the detriment of current Podium Windows development.
Up to you of course and you will know what you can do and where your time is best spent but I would say…go for the touch based market, get Podium Ready for it but…anything more than a 70/ 30 split of dev time (Windows/ Mobile devices) is likely going to lose you more customers than you can gain currently.
Mainly because of the competition out there (Sonar X1 Essential, Reaper 4 e.t.c.) not really because you are unresponsive (quite the opposite) or Podium is suddenly mysteriously incapable of this or that. 🙂
Mobium could be a major player on iOS
If Zynewave needs mobile device support to survive and thrive then go for it. I totally support and understand that. But I humbly suggest if I may that the dev time needs to be carefully thought out to avoid alienating existing customers. devs can make a huge amount of money on iOS but…how big is that market for musicians…*now*?. You can help drive the market and the rewards for those devs that do could be a market leading app positioned for creative mobile musicians with other devs playing catch up (AVID, Steinberg e.t.c) quite a thought 😯
It’s a very exciting prospect I must say. If as you say you will “Occasionally experiment” with Mobium then I think it’s a great idea. 6 months or later from now the mobile market will be a bit clearer direction wise for musicians and you would have something to offer in that space. Seems like a very good idea IMO. 🙂
pj geerlingsI wish I felt even a tiny bit of excitement regarding this news – as it is all I see is a bunch of teenagers trying to compose music while they drive.
-pj
bladerunneri must admit – this whole thread has me a little worried. i get the impression that most of the user base of podium are of the more mature variety – older musicians who have been around the block a bit when it comes to audio software. in my mind, this kind of user ‘group’ is perhaps the least likely to use tiny hand held devices to compose on. perhaps i’m completely wrong… i don’t know. mobium would obviously be marketed at a slightly different user – but if this is the detriment of podium development it might see people leaving it in favour of another app. in my experience (what i have noticed at various forums i have been part of or lurking at over the years) even if an app is functioning very well some users tend to migrate if development slows or appears to all but cease. i would rather use an app that is being actively developed and discussed than an app that i am unsure about in terms of development, bug fixes etc.
roninI think it all comes down to a binary decision: Shall Podium (and all its derivatives) be targeted at current professional users or not?
If the answer is “Yes” then the following points are to be considered:
Podium already has a tendency towards professionalism as its user interface is oriented at the big players (you all know them) and their current workflow. Functionality-wise it lacks some things professional audio engineers/producers need. A non-exhaustive “professional” list may be:
Personally I would love to see these things happen, especially with Frits ability to put things like these in an esthetic, clean and nice working UI.
If the answer was “No”:
Podium is currently not a “one click funtoy” (IL users may forgive me: like Fruity). If this is the target then either a lot of work has to be done with Podium or a new thing like Mobium has to be started. As a new generation of engineers/producers may have different needs, it may be the best to leave Podium as it is and work on something new. But:
Personally I don’t see a bright future for all the iOS stuff. The whole system is way too restrictive and other platforms (namely linux) are much more configurable (be it software or hardware).
Anyway these mobile devices offer a lot of compelling flexibility and of course mobility but I think we don’t even have a use for that. I know a lot of people having an iOS device but noone has a single use case for the device. They just wanted to have it without knowing how they are going to use it.
I have a MacBook pro and an iPad at my disposal and I’ve bought some creative tools for the iPad. I have to admit that it isn’t fun at all. I have recognized, that I have no use for these tools except when going by train (which doesn’t happen really often) and even then it takes 10min and I’m bored. The only thing the iPad is good at is surfing some webpages and maybe reading one or two emails. That’s all.
Also I can’t imagine any producer who is working in the studio with an iPad or something like that. But a mobile device with a touch interface would be a perfect remote/input device for a flexible and professional DAW! In my opinion, this is the only interesting use case for such a device (when talking about audio related work).
An audio engineer could directly work with the musicians in the recording room while starting the record or monitoring the meters. There are a lot of interesting use cases to discover here.
InfinitoarI have some things to say about this topic but I’m going to STFU, because:
1:-I own a iPod Touch 4G. And the reasons for owning it is more personal than anything else.
2:-I feel like what I say may be diverted somehow.
3:-Zynewave whatever you feel is necessary for the development of your business is your call.
4:-I’m not that “favored” with my honest opinions so I’ll still choose to STFU.
Good luck everyone with this and good luck Zynewave…..
Zynewave@khaos wrote:
I think you’re dreaming if you think that 95% of music will be made with a primary mobile devices in 5 years..
If you want to target creative musicians, built a matrix like interface in Podium like there is in Ableton Live, put in OSC support, add a sampler, a looper…
I’m not saying that 95% of the music you hear in the radio is going to originate on a tablet device. In the 95% I’m including “teenagers” that are doing their first music experiments on their iDevice to figure out if they can become the next pop-idol. And in 5 years, I still expect the majority of users to have a PC/Mac besides their tablet device. I just see the tablet form factor as an excellent tool for capturing musical ideas, field recordings, etc.
Zynewave@H-man wrote:
@Zynewave wrote:
@H-man wrote:
I am intrigued buy the multi-touch aspect tho, and would be pretty enthusiastic about a remote-control capability for the “full-version”. Given the challenges of instruments etc, could this be a half-way step to full mobility?
If you mean an app that can show and control the UI of Podium running on your PC, then that is an entirely different app that would require extensive coding. For that purpose I would suggest trying some of the many available remote-desktop connection apps.
Sooo ..do you expect to integrate the touch features with the main app as well as the mobile app?
I really like the idea of being able to use multi-touch for midi/paramter curve editing.
Yes. The touch support will be available in both Mobium and Podium. The touch support is the same, whether it is Podium running on an iPhone, or Podium running on a Windows 7 all-in-one PC with a 24″ multitouch-screen.
ZynewaveThe concern some people are expressing in this topic is perhaps based on some misunderstandings. I’ll try to clarify a few things:
It is possibly misleading to name the app “Mobium”, because in essence it is Podium.
I’m not going to make Mobium into a toy. It is going to be the full Podium DAW, just with a different default editor layout. Some of the advanced Podium features will, at least initially, be hidden from the Mobium UI. For example, the track tags and editor profile customization will not be available in Mobium.
The screenshots you see in my first post in this topic is the full Podium 2.40, where I just have modified the default editor profiles to fit on the smaller screen.
I’m not going to work on features specifically for Mobium. Any future feature development will seamlessly make its way into both Mobium and Podium. If my plan was to make Mobium into a different beast, I would never have started this experiment. I started this project because I found a simple way to port Podium to another OS, and thereby make Podium available to a larger audience.
H-man@Zynewave wrote:
The screenshots you see in my first post in this topic is the full Podium 2.40, where I just have modified the default editor profiles to fit on the smaller screen.
So what’s it like? You said in a previous post that you were excited about the project (or was it the possibilities?). Does it feel workable even on the touch?
accordoFrits, this is way head of the competition!
The Android, as an OS, has surpassed Apple but the numbers are shown, from Steve Jobs, in the wrong way.
iPhone is the #1 Phone sold in the world as a unit but not as operating system, Android is selling at twice the speed of the iPhone.
Anyone can do this investigation and it is amazing how things are twisted.
I had an iPhone until someone in my company showed me a Samsung Android and I could not believe how far head it is in programs, speed, quality AND FREEDOM!
So, yes I will buy the Android version no question about it.
No iTune, just drag and drop anything in it.
Imagine Podium on a NEXUS S = Amazing!
4micaI’ll never own a mobile device…my $15 a month Net10 phone will do for what little I have to say or text to someone. I like my desktop for the increased power it has over any said devices. But I think that it’s a great idea to have a sketch pad on the road, with files that are compatible with Podium. And you’d be the first on the block to do so, unless someone’s already done this w/o my knowledge. It would no doubt get you some new customers for Podium as well. No VST support is alright, if you get these 3rd party plugs….would it be possible, you think, to integrate the sampler/synth/effects into regular Podium? Especially the sampler, but that’s a dusty old feature request of mine, not of great concern to me, Short Circuit’s always good(except for that main screen CPU spike).
But hey, it sounds like it won’t interfere much with regular Podium’s development, so more power to those 16 year olds! As long as they stay out of my way at work when I’m toting some 50 pound bags of flour around…
Bad thing is, there will be huge leaps in computing power on these devices, but the screen will always be a few inches. Godspeed—