The Telenator.
The Telenator[This post and thread title edited 01/26/12] I’ve been recording (mostly live or semi-live stuff) and sort of learning Podium by feel. Finally I get a chance to read the Guide and by page 60 I’m about ready to toss it. Some of the terminology is not very well explained. This thing could use a GLOSSARY and an edit. In addition, it could benefit greatly from some additional graphics, perhaps employing arrows that show what is being discussed.
The place I finally lost it was when I got to the Editors “Chapter.” It is suddenly talking about a “Timeline Context Menu,” yet it does not explain anywhere where this thing is located or where to click to open/find it. THEN, it is suddenly talking about “CSPL buttons” but they are nowhere to be found either. I am no newbie to these DAWs, and I have seen other guides and manuals that were not the greatest either, but this is nuts. I was doing great with Podium; now I’m regretting I ever looked at the Guide.
Can someone explain what the deal is with these nonexistent menus and invisible “edit modes”? Here is the beginning of all my troubles:
“Use the four CSPL buttons or the ruler context menu to select either cursor, segment, punch or loop edit mode.” (page 61)
I’ve been wondering all along why Podium isn’t about 10 times more popular than it is, because almost daily I find a new reason to keep it as my No.1 recording host. I had virtually no issues at all getting started, getting recording, doing basic editing, but all this was before I ever looked at the Guide. I liked the fact that it was under 200 pages right off the bat, but the farther I read the more it started giving me a headache. The English, spelling and mechanics are mostly okay, and it is laid out decently, but the terminology is sometimes poorly defined. I’m guessing that this could be a make-or-break point for someone new to Podium. Can anyone enlighten me on this “Guide” and explain what is going on in the section I noted that starts on page 61?
adimatisBut you said you did just fine without the manual…
Why do you need it? 😉
On a serious note, I think, for me, the most helpful was to read the forum posts, to watch the available videos and read the manual too. Probably more people would be interested if the manual was a little bit easier read, but on the other hand, the program itself is rather nicely layed out, so, no real issues.
For someone that is not a totally novice to using DAW software, it is fine. I don’t think is such a big mess as you might feel right now.
The TelenatorHaha, good one, adimatis! Good point, really, ’cause I’m not sure I truly do NEED the Guide. I’ve said it repeatedly before that, if this Podium was any more intuitive and “automatic” than it is already, it would actually play the darned instruments for me!
But, yes, seriously, people keep encouraging me to settle down and read the Guide, which I finally had time to do this week. My main reason is that Podium inspires me so much that I want to learn all the fine and tricky stuff, some of which I’m sure I must be missing at the moment. I’d really like to know Podium inside and out.
I consider your argument about the forum and particularly the video tutorials being better teachers and so on. It’s true, at least for the videos — there are indeed a lot of good ones, but don’t you think a guide or manual ought to be able to carry the full weight of explaining all of a DAW’s functions and features?
I have seen this before: You have a guy who is basically a near-genius designer/programmer who creates jaw-dropping stuff (and for extra examples, his Nucleum synth is a total gas, the Zverb is one of the best free reverbs I’ve ever used — only Ambience compares with it IMHO), but meanwhile he’s at somewhat of a loss to explain in plain, simple English how half of his gadget works!
You know, I was sort of hoping to avoid it, because “Side-tracked” seems to be my middle name when it comes to focusing on my main goals in music, but I just retired from 30 years of working as an editor and sometimes writer at the end of last year. It was a good day job to combine with playing music, especially when I could edit for music and arts publications.
The short of it is that I think I might be willing to do a complete overhaul of the Guide this year. Unfortunately, I can’t touch sections that I don’t fully comprehend yet, but once I get my arms around everything that’s currently included the editing is usually a breeze for me. My specialty was polishing up the work of a handful of brilliant writers, most recently a group of music journalists.
Whatever the case ends up being, in the meantime can you explain what’s going on around page 61? I’m just not seeing at all what’s being discussed. I’ve used plenty of editors in others DAWs, but this section has me stumped!
Thanks!
The TelenatorI forgot to mention — Cubase 6 came with a full rewrite of the manual. Steinberg’s stuff is often a good standard with which to compare, and I’m very familiar with their products. Cubase 5’s manual was rather annoying and Cubase 4 was considered horrible by most users. I agree with the general assessment of that manual — it was a good deal worse than anything I’m talking about regarding the Podium Guide. The 4 manual came with an almost arrogant tone. They finally did fix it about a year ago in 6.
adimatisThat would be a very simplistic answer, but really, just PLAY around with it.
Here are some useful things you can do using the timeline, I found them by playing around, like I said:
1. Record or insert a wav on a track, select it, go to the “repeat” button on the transport, right click and “set loops around selection”
2. Right click on the timeline and then you’ll be able to select a bunch of options for setting the Cursor, set Segments, set the in and out points of Punch Recording, set Loops margins, then you can copy, move, delete, etc.
3. CSPL is just that^^^
4. Enter editor by double clicking the wave form. Again you have some good options there.
And so on, so forth…
The TelenatorHey, thanks for your info about some of those actions, but I’ve already been doing things exactly as you describe.
I’m not sure yet — I’m taking today to work on this and other parts of the guide — but I think some of what I’ve run into are updates that weren’t changed in the guide or else they are just plain errors. I’ve got issues on pages 61 and 66 at the moment, so I’ll just annotate those and move along. Maybe “disaster” was a bit over the top. Some of the problem is the terminology, which I actually like but it takes some adjusting. Some of the terms compare rather well with my REAPER, which is helpful, but I think a little more definition, maybe a nice glossary, is in order.
Here’s one I know for certain: no matter whether my numberpad is locked or not, hitting the Zero key DOES NOT stop play as in the Guide. Numpad Enter does start play but Zero takes whatever track is highlighted and adds a repeat of whatever object (event) is on the track. Neat, aye? I’m using a nice, fairly new ASUS laptop with a very standard keyboard, so I doubt it’s anything funky to do with that.
I’m sure I’ll survive the Guide. After all, I survived two Cubase manuals and that wasn’t the cause for leaving Cubase behind at all.
Thanks adimatis and happy new year.
I want to put it out there again — does anyone know how to locate these “CSPL BUTTONS” the Guide says exist?!?!
adimatis@The Telenator wrote:
I want to put it out there again — does anyone know how to locate these “CSPL BUTTONS” the Guide says exist?!?!
To be honest, I was wondering myself. Maybe the manual reffers simply to the right click menu entries.
kingtubbyThe cspl buttons were removed from the default setup a while back.
A quick check back reveals this post from 2008 that confirms it was version 2.07 when they were removed.
It does highlight the somewhat patchy nature of the guide though. Of course the wiki is open to anyone who has the time and inclination to update it.
The Telenatorkingtubby! I can’t thank you enough! I thought I was losing my freaking mind, ’cause I was doing to very closeup scan of the Guide. Sometimes, when I find a bit of software I like as much as Podium, I’ll go right into and through every little feature to learn all its tricks and treats. Like adimatis pointed out, there are always other means of going about accessing a feature. In this case, you can get all these another way, but it was making me question whether I had just had 20 million brain cells go offline, ’cause I’m just NOT finding a few things!
These “buttons” really are unneeded. I’m going to have to chat with Frits at some point before too long — although editing technical manuals was never my top favorite, once I’m more familiar I could do an edit on the whole thing. That was my whole straight job bag for years. It wouldn’t be that big a job. Maybe I could try to barter for a good on-screen keyboard I asked for or future upgrades or some other snappy little Feature Request!
Thanks again!
The TelenatorFor anyone reading this thread, I’d like to point out that the Zynewave Podium WIKI is more accurate in most places and very user friendly. I have run into a couple of very tiny errors there as well, but those can be fixed in a flash when time allows and are nothing vital enough to throw a novice user off track or into confusion. I’m finding the WIKI to be a rather trustworthy source and fairly up to date.
Cheers!
ZynewaveYes, the guide is unfortunately not up to date, and downright misleading in some places, due to recent software updates. Most people don’t start out with the guide, and so I feel it’s better to devote my time to make the software as intuitive as possible. Writing documentation is not my strong side, and I find it a slow and boring process, partly because English is not my first language. Being a one-man business, it is hard to excel at all sides of running a business 🙁
The most ideal situation would be that the guide was not needed at all. I hope to extend the Podium popup-help system over time, so that we can toss the guide and replace it with a series of how-to videos. I do think that the current popup-help is up to date, as I integrate the popup-help while coding new features.
@The Telenator wrote:
Here’s one I know for certain: no matter whether my numberpad is locked or not, hitting the Zero key DOES NOT stop play as in the Guide. Numpad Enter does start play but Zero takes whatever track is highlighted and adds a repeat of whatever object (event) is on the track. Neat, aye? I’m using a nice, fairly new ASUS laptop with a very standard keyboard, so I doubt it’s anything funky to do with that.
Most numpads have a mode key that toggles between numbers and alternate keys for arrows, insert, delete etc. It sounds like your numpad is in navigation mode, where 0 is mapped to the Insert key. Podium uses the Insert key as a shortcut to duplicate selections.
adimatis@Zynewave wrote:
I hope to extend the Podium popup-help system over time, so that we can toss the guide and replace it with a series of how-to videos. I do think that the current popup-help is up to date, as I integrate the popup-help while coding new features.
Excellent! Popup help is great and works a breeze.
And “video manual” ideea – absolutely! We humans DO get about 80% information thru sight – hence videos are a very good idea.
Actually, the very video presentation from the home page is something that tought me alot. I just needed to pause it often! 😉
The TelenatorAn interesting note: Most manufacturers are trying to get away from manuals/guides as well. Some are no longer available IN PRINT when you opt to buy the disk (even at the $400+ price tag). This was unheard of just a couple of years back. I clearly sense that most wish they could get away from it altogether. These things are all heading past 500 pages a pop these days!
Now, Podium could possibly survive on the strength of its popups and its wiki, which is rather good but needs some updating as well. I found some things last night but have only just signed on there. The wiki PLUS the popups (which are wonderful for beginners and seem to be quite on the mark) might be the way to go.
On the other hand, there are a small group of musicians, and will probably always be, who have no internet yet do much DAW work. I’ve met a few; they will go online to get the goods and get off.
In addition and like I said before, Podium is most likely going to remain my No.1 system from here on out. IF SO, editing and maintaining a guide might not be a that big a deal for me. The stuff you hate is the stuff I’ve done for years — I actually enjoy editing, and it used to be my daytime survival gig between bands and sessions. To do a tech manual well, one really ought to know the product inside and out. Editing out outdated features is one of the easier tasks. If you want a full edit and future updating, maybe I might be willing to trade you for a lifetime of upgrades and a nifty on-screen keyboard? Perhaps something to consider for now.
I want to say that I kept waiting for your English to mess up somewhere in your posts but just wasn’t finding it. You do much better than many, to the point I began wondering, Is this guy really Danish or is he some expatriate from the UK or the States.
Nice to hear from you and Happy New Year! Really enjoying Podium more and more as I’m using it regularly now.
Zynewave@The Telenator wrote:
In addition and like I said before, Podium is most likely going to remain my No.1 system from here on out. IF SO, editing and maintaining a guide might not be a that big a deal for me. The stuff you hate is the stuff I’ve done for years — I actually enjoy editing, and it used to be my daytime survival gig between bands and sessions. To do a tech manual well, one really ought to know the product inside and out. Editing out outdated features is one of the easier tasks. If you want a full edit and future updating, maybe I might be willing to trade you for a lifetime of upgrades and a nifty on-screen keyboard? Perhaps something to consider for now.
That sounds like a good deal. No rush though. I think you’ll need a few months with Podium before you can decide whether revising the Podium guide would be worthwhile.
Notice that the installed Podium pdf guide is actually just an export/print of the wiki guide.
The TelenatorGreetings, Frits. I’m looking at a full edit of the Guide beginning mid-year 2012. I already know my workload for most of the year, and barring a win on American Idol this should work out well. This also allows enough time for everyone to use the recent Mackie/Control Surface upgrade, in case any more issues turn up. It also would allow for at least one more Podium release.
I did indeed see the relationship between the Wiki and the Guide and noted a few differences here and there. The best part is the Wiki provides the perfect portal for entry to do the editing, without having to pull out my Adobe software (which I dislike) or the need to send text back and forth via the Net.
The first task in the next couple of months would be to comb through the Wiki for purely mechanical issues; I’ve found a couple of spelling errors and one or two grammatical hangups. By mid-year the next step I believe would be to remove all defunct features from previous releases, such as the one I discovered the other day.
Meanwhile and also, just as the Wiki states, I would like to encourage any other licensed users with any writing experience and ideas to join in to prepare for this complete update of the Wiki/Guide. One nice feature of a full review is that only future improvements to Podium will need consideration down the road.
You had mentioned some possible changes to the file system. Those would be important to include after any are made, since they are sort of the backbone to the system.
One can usually tell rather quickly if a designer has written a manual. Although it is very common to have designers of plugins do this (and everybody seems to be offering some type of homebrewed plugin these days), it is unusual to find this situation with something as large and comprehensive as Podium is. Ideally, designers should only have to hand over their notes and the gadget to the writers, then later review drafts of the manual, make suggestions, and fine-tune the final copy.
We can return to the task of editing in a two or three months. I want to stress again that this will not be a very difficult project. Much of the Guide is fine as is. Another advantage is that it is not extremely lengthy unlike so many others, and I think one goal should be to attempt to keep it at or under 200 pages. I found it a lot more welcoming when I saw that it was not going to take me two months to read through. I think the most important task is explaining as simply as possible the unique features and approaches of this DAW. I think I noticed a couple of places in the Wiki where the text had been updated to achieve this. I’ve seen that this is where some users coming from other DAWs sometimes stumble. There was a moment or two that I had to pause and ask myself, What is going on here? when I first encountered the way Podium handles files and projects.
Thanks for your input, and I’ll be in touch eventually regarding the Guide.