Topic: Zynewave synth & effects, opinions?

regarding UI: if they had the same look as Podium (even if they were seperate VSTs) that would be fine, ie using the same knobs that the mixer users… it’s a nice look, and doesn’t look like hardware. i realise if they were separate VSTs they could not use the same colour settings as Podium’s interface, so maybe a default grey/silver could be used with the green highlighted knobs

Another option is to make the VST plugins work only in Podium, with only the signal processing done in the plugins, and the UI code built into Podium. There are some technical advantages to this approach.

I think this option would work the best – it would also mean that the plugins would adopt the colours used by Podium, correct? That would look nice and consistent.

regarding paying 50euros for the synth/effects add on: it’s a question of what people would get for their money, and the actual quality of the synths/effects. what synths/effects will be provided? will the compressor and eq be transparent and smooth? will all the plugs be full featured?

I suppose you have the question the value of the plugins, really. What are these plugins for? Are they meant to be really simple, just to demonstrate how to use plugins in Podium in example projects, but not necessarily with good sound quality? Or, are they going to the reliable excellent sounding plugins that could be used without thinking in lots of projects? Obviously the second path would be alot more time consuming.

I’d like to you remind you of an idea I had a while ago and posted about. The idea is to get permission to use third party free plugins in podium, which could be bundled with Podium (or, links provided to download them – maybe a new section of the Guide is needed which would cover example projects). This would increase the exposure of these free plugins to the benefit of their developers, while saving you time in building new plugins. Some names that come to mind are PolyIblit, the smartelectronix plugs
http://www.smartelectronix.com/ (there’s an EQ, compressor and delay in there somewhere) and there are many more out there. Are you familiar with FruityLoops Studio? I’m pretty sure the MDA suite of plugins come bundles with FruityLoops, so you could follow a similar path…

Hi Frits,

I’ve begun development of synth and effect plugins, to be able to deliver example projects that does not require you to download and install various freeware plugins.

I’d like to you remind you of an idea I had a while ago and posted about. The idea is to get permission to use third party free plugins in podium, which could be bundled with Podium

I totally agree, this is what Mackie does with Tracktion.

I don’t say that it would not be nice to see some plugins which will share the quality of Podium, but for me the developpment of Podium itself is far more important.

Podium is not an entry level multitrack software but could compete with professional ones, and I don’t think that the lack of integrated effects will be a problem for potential users of Podium.

Sure, there is also a high need for good tutorials, so if the bundle solution is possible it will be of course a great value for beginners (eh, not only !).

I always compare Podium to Logic…it’s “marketing position”, being such a serious app, I think is best described is the asnwer to the death of Logic on the PC. To that end including top-quality plugins that ONLY work on Podium (like Logic does) is a good idea. My suggestion is do as Logic did back in the day (3 years ago): have the plugins included as part of the installer (actually part of the Podium executable), but they need to be unlocked with a code that you’d purchase here. I’m guessing they wouldn’t add too much to the size of the Podium executable/installer, since they’re synths/effects and not romplers, but no one really cares about size much anymore anyway. (for SOME things…)

That doesn’t solve your demo song problem though, if the plugins aren’t unlocked your demo can’t use them…but at the same time, a lot of sequencers don’t come with demo songs. If they do (like Digital Performer), they play the computer’s built-in MIDI synthesizer. Why not try that, if you think demo files are important? More important I think is “Podium in action” type demo movies on the site, showing a song playing, all the different windows opening and showing the song while it’s playing, etc. And a list of pros using Podium. Maybe a couple interviews with them. Getting good callout quotes like “As serious as Logic, but without the Apple bullshit” or “Crystal clear transparent mxing engine” etc.

And if there’s a beta test to sign up for these soft synths, LET A BROTHA KNOW! hahah

My intention with the effects plugin is to provide a multieffect plugin that on the UI side integrates into the track inspector and the mixer strips.

If by “multieffect” you mean an equalizer or others basic processes, that will use far less CPU and memory than an external one, of course you have my vote 😉

But for this kind of effect, perhaps that it will be logical to NOT be an option and increase slightly the price of Podium ?

Well… It’s hard to say what will be the best selling solution for Podium. We don’t know the future, right? So I can tell you only my own opinion regarding Zynewave fx & synth. I may be wrong, because I’m not a studio sound engineer, I’m just a DJ and musician, but I play my music in clubs often here in my city, and I’m trying to make real money with this soft.
@Zynewave wrote:

…I don’t want people to associate Podium with the quality of the effects processing.

Even if fx and synth will be released separately from Podium, they will be associated with it. Actually, if you started up the product line with so good and original product like Podium, people will wait for something like this from fx and synth too.

I also don’t like the idea to add thirdparty plugins to Podium installer. I’ve tried Making Waves and N-Track before buying Podium. Both of this apps comes with thirdparty plugs – for me it looks absolutely terrible and not professional. (Just my opinion)

There’s a lot of plugins around, and people don’t need “yet another delay” or “yet another FM synths”. But some things like EQ and dithering usually built in hosts, and it’s a good idea to make them purchased separately. Something like “Zynewave mixing and mastering pack”? Sounds good for me. But pesonally I think that such plugs must be the highest quality to make people buy Zynewave… And not Waves 😯 😉

@Zynewave wrote:

Would people be prepared to pay something like 50? for an effects/synth add-on license to Podium?

Yes. Well, at least me.

@suges wrote:

More important I think is “Podium in action” type demo movies on the site, showing a song playing, all the different windows opening and showing the song while it’s playing, etc. And a list of pros using Podium.

I agree with suges. Don’t know why, but info about pros using some app realy makes people to buy it. I know the guy from Russia who spend about 7000$ (or so) buying Mac & some software for it, because “Tiesto using Mac” 😯

I’m not moving focus away from providing a professional host, but I think providing example projects that play straight out of the box are important. I have gotten a lot of feedback from people that have not managed to create sound in Podium, before giving up. One user even misunderstood the need for installing the freeware plugins in the freebees example project.

I agree with Frits here. THE biggest single problem from my own experience and others trying out Podium is getting any sound out of it. I had to pretty much forget about it for about a year because I just could not work out how to get a simple beep out of Podium!

Most people who try Podium have certainly used other hosts and cannot understand how it can be so complex that even the demo projects cannot provide any sound, or at least there does not appear to be an easy way to do so…yet.

It would be great if other areas of Podium were developed of course, I have my own favourites like midi export (maybe Podium already has this), dither, and rewire but the reality is that Frits has to consider not just existing users but new users as well.

Somehow the process of getting the demo projects to work easier and quicker has to be addressed if new users are to come onboard.

The market for Sequencers is very busy already…certainly around Podiums price point.

Energy XT (very popular) is £27 and has PDC and dual core support. It can be used as a VSTi, VST FX or as a standalone host. It also has it’s own built in sampler. Version 2 coming soon (early 2006) will be free.

Sonar home studio is around the £100 mark and of course has Cakewalks marketing muscle behind it.

Cubase SE £100 now with Yamaha’s deep pockets funding the marketing machine for that.

Tracktion now around £100.

I think whichever way you look at it the development of Zynewave plugs may very well mean we do not get the features we want as fast as we would like (Frits is one developer after all) but for Podium to grow more users have to come onboard. That simple.

Once the key weakness of a product has been identified by a developer it would be strange to not try to address it.

Many have tried and struggled to get a sound out of Podium. These very same people may pay less or even more for another host if it can get a demo project playing first time every time. It is simply something that you really do not think will ever be a problem when trying out a sequencer for the first time.

How (or *if* a demo project plays at all in the case of Podium) clearly is a deal make or breaker for many.

A demo project is a developers big chance to show exactly what it can do, at least the key features. To be faced with silence when hitting the play button gives the impression that the product is rushed, bugged or incompatible with standard asio drivers. This is sooooooo far from the truth as Podium for me is bug free, extremely stable and has a realtime audio engine like Live 5.

People need to get to the other side of this demo wall of silence quickly. Podium is definitely unique enough to fare very well against the competition. No question. Also based on a certain KVR thread many like the idea but simply cannot get in.

The whole sequencer market moves incredibly fast, I think *if* any sacrifices have to made in terms of waiting a little longer for features we want, so that new users can get up to speed far quicker with demo projects as a result of Zynewave plugs, I will gladly wait.

Every Podium user stands to gain from a larger community. More users means more investment in Podium which leads to more development and of course much wider feedback for it’s future development.

There is no easy way around it. Podium I think needs Zynewave plugs although the Supercrunchy idea of bundling freebies is quicker for now but I would still want Zynewave plugs instead as they would be developed from the ground up by Frits.

I would be much happier using Frits plugs than 3rd party options. I would pay more to use them as well.

Here is an idea Frits. How about a stripped down version of your FX and Synth plugs that will work out of the box?

The more fully featured ones could then be sold separately with more presets, and other additional features.

Another idea is to disable preset saving with any plugs that ship with Podium. They could be fully functional (so that demo projects will play correctly) but Podium will not allow any parameter adjustments to be saved.

Or even a time limited demo of the plugs with a clear indication to the trial user that it will expire within a certain amount of time. I think older demos of Podium may have had something similar built in possibly.

Again, this would allow the user to play Podiums demo projects perfectly well and give enough time to evaluate Podium properly.

At least Podium will finally be as simple to get into as a majority of the competition is already in comparison. It’s easy when you know how in Podium.

But I too gave up on Podium and left it for 12 months before having another try. I think it was Super Crunchy’s tutorial that helped me to scale the wall of silence finally. I was still baffled as to how to bring up FX or synth Gui’s and clicked here and there before starting the audio engine first. Sometimes it’s the little things.

Many others may never bother looking at it again. Some potential customers are like that. “oh I could not get any sound out of it, forget that” of course other developers have worked out that possibly the most crucial part of the buying process for a sequencer is how easy it is to get up and running. Frits know this. This was the key reason for Tracktions initial success.

Live 5 also has tutorials built right into the session view with an additional info box that provides info on just about any thing you touch in Live. The success of Live is not all about the feature set. It’s also how easy it is to simply get started.

Podium also has pop up help and a similar info line that mirrors Tracktions. Every little bit helps.

Frits has to try and bring in new users. I think Podium users have few if any complaints, only feature requests. But those trying the demo have been struggling to get started. There are many other options available out there. Sometimes you do not get that many chances to break into a market as competitive as it is right now.

Adding new Zynewave plugs will take time. But I think it is the best way forward IMHO.

@Zynewave wrote:

Another option is to make the VST plugins work only in Podium, with only the signal processing done in the plugins, and the UI code built into Podium. There are some technical advantages to this approach.

❗

i would prefer this.