Topic: About the embedded editor…

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  • August 6, 2009 at 14:37 #2006
    thcilnnahoj
    Participant

    Since usability is the main target right now I thought it’d be a good time to bring this up.
    It most certainly doesn’t fit the description of quick improvements, though.

    The embedded editor. I would really like to use it instead of opening editors in a seperate window, but it’s a usability mystery to me! 😉

    The problem is that it’s linked to the arrangement view’s horizontal zoom level. When you’re zoomed out, the editor is practically useless for the most part (1, 2) and you have to zoom in until the event is big enough in the arrangement (4) – only to do a quick edit, sometimes.
    It might be fine with long drawn-out notes (3), but even that gets lost when you’re zoomed out really far.
    The only merit I can see in this is that the event and the editor are always lined up perfectly (4).

    I, for one wouldn’t mind trading that for having a more detached editor that has its own zoom settings. Pretty much like the non-embedded one, which always starts out with its zoom level set so that all events fit in view nicely. Also see: Logic 8 screenshot.

    Examples are MIDI editor only, but of course it applies to the others (sound, curve) too.
    Anyone’s thoughts? Do you use the embedded editor with good results – maybe you can give me the answer to this riddle. 🙂

    August 6, 2009 at 14:52 #15922
    LiquidProj3ct
    Participant

    I think the same, I don’t use it because it shares the zoom with main arrangement. I’d like it was as the not-embbeded midi/event editor.

    August 6, 2009 at 14:59 #15923
    Markus
    Participant

    ..

    August 6, 2009 at 16:42 #15925
    Conquistador
    Participant

    Very well illustrated thcilnnahoj. It has not been a problem for me I have to say but now that you mention it if there is currently no way to decouple the midi editors zoom from the arrange zoom value then yes the change would be welcome. 🙂

    August 6, 2009 at 17:19 #15928
    namunger
    Participant

    It seems that your question answers itself – when you want a zoomed-in view, use the non-embedded editor, when you want it locked to the arrangement, use the embedded editor – that’s why they’re both there.

    I use the embedded editor if I’m jumping between parts quickly, say I want to change a rhythm that’s in more than one part. That way, I don’t have to find the right measure every time I open a window, they’re all locked in. I use the dedicated editor window if I know I’m only going to be working with one track for a while.

    I like having the two methods available, depending on what kind of “mode” I’m working in. 😀

    August 6, 2009 at 17:31 #15930
    LiquidProj3ct
    Participant

    We say this, namunger, because we don’t like open tons of windows (and personally I hate the window’s title bar inside a program as beatiful as Podium).

    best regards

    August 6, 2009 at 18:36 #15934
    Conquistador
    Participant

    LP’s post pretty much explains it namunger.

    I understand your point but we definitely want to avoid the floating window and still have a different zoom value for the embedded editor at the same time. This does not seem possible currently. 🙂

    August 6, 2009 at 21:09 #15936
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @thcilnnahoj wrote:

    Besides the fact that I personally consider the time-locked editing a nice feature, the other consideration is space efficiency. In your screenshot I see you have added a timeline ruler to the embedded profile. I assume you also have a scrollbar then at the bottom. That’s a lot of vertical pixels that can be avoided when the embedded editor shares the timeline navigation of the arrangement editor. Vertical space is a limited resource, especially if you also have the mixer open, and these days it seems that monitor resolutions are growing wider (16:9) instead of taller.

    August 6, 2009 at 22:11 #15938
    thcilnnahoj
    Participant

    I don’t remember adding the timeline region (like I said, I never use the editor), maybe it carried over from an old default setup? If not, then I guess I must have, at some point. And while there’s no horizontal scrollbar in my setup, yes, of course there’d have to be one for this to work.

    Vertical space… Hmm, If you look at that Logic screenshot (the overall element size isn’t so much different from Podium), I think it works just fine with scrollbars, timeline, markers and shiny wasted space – and the whole picture isn’t even 900 px tall. Of course there are space problems when you have the mixer open as well (can’t have both in Logic), but that will always be the case, whether there are 40 pixels more or less. However, neither the timeline nor the scrollbar would even have to be there in the time-locked editor. You could, for example, make this a different editor profile and everyone could quickly switch between them in the view menu.
    Some of us are simply arguing for more horizontal space without having to zoom all the time. Please don’t dismiss it just yet… 🙁

    Good night!

    August 6, 2009 at 22:19 #15939
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @thcilnnahoj wrote:

    Some of us are simply arguing for more horizontal space without having to zoom all the time. Please don’t dismiss it just yet… 🙁

    Good night!

    I’m not dismissing it. I’m just explaining why I have made an effort to avoid wasted vertical space. I’ll consider adding an option in the embedded editor region properties, to enable non-embedded editor profiles as well.

    August 6, 2009 at 22:37 #15940
    Markus
    Participant

    ..

    August 6, 2009 at 22:58 #15941
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @Markus wrote:

    Nothing.. Why i even try?

    What? 😕

    As I replied to you in another topic, I read all forum posts. You can’t expect me to reply to every single post. I work 10-14 hours a day, 7 days a week, on Podium. I hope users understand, that when I’m not online on this forum, I’m busy developing on Podium.

    August 7, 2009 at 08:04 #15943
    kyran
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    @Markus wrote:

    Nothing.. Why i even try?

    What? 😕

    As I replied to you in another topic, I read all forum posts. You can’t expect me to reply to every single post. I work 10-14 hours a day, 7 days a week, on Podium. I hope users understand, that when I’m not online on this forum, I’m busy developing on Podium.

    If it takes some time before you answer a question, I’m kind of happy: it means nice things are being added to podium 😀

    August 7, 2009 at 08:09 #15944
    LiquidProj3ct
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    I’m not dismissing it. I’m just explaining why I have made an effort to avoid wasted vertical space. I’ll consider adding an option in the embedded editor region properties, to enable non-embedded editor profiles as well.

    Thanks you Frits! it would be the option I’d use =P~

    August 7, 2009 at 08:43 #15945
    pavouk100
    Participant

    @Conquistador wrote:

    LP’s post pretty much explains it namunger.

    I understand your point but we definitely want to avoid the floating window and still have a different zoom value for the embedded editor at the same time. This does not seem possible currently. 🙂

    I, on the other hand, completely agree with namunger; having embedded editor time/zoom-locked with arrangement is a BIG usability plus, and sacrificing it only because of cosmetic issue (floating window ‘ugliness’) is very bad idea IMO. Moreover, floating it does not seem to be ugly to me at all, I don’t have anything against them.

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