Podianer.
super_crunchyHi Frits
When I’m working with alot of VSTs, I find playback of my tracks is fine (unless CPU use is nearing the red)
Eventually I bounce all the tracks to WAV to conserve CPU usage, and then I play back my track which now has very few VSTs in use – playback is fine, and CPU use is very low now 8)
After saving and closing Podium, when I reopen Podium later and attempt to play back the same track I get heaps of audio dropouts! This happens every time I reload the tracks. Only after playing the track from start to finish multiple times do the audio dropouts start to stop
I realise this is probably an audio buffer issue… but… why does it occur only after reopening a track, and not after I have bounced?
Thanks for any light you can shed on this subject
Cheers
Chris
PS I have a laptop, but I fitted it with a 7200rpm drive which is only about 40% full
ZynewaveHow much memory do you have on your laptop?
When your track plays without dropouts, it’s probably because most of the audio is cached in memory, and does not need to be loaded from disk. This is the case after a bounce-record or after a track has been played back.
I need to optimize the disk streaming in Podium at some point. I’m aware that this is not efficient when there are a lot of audio tracks playing.
super_crunchyI have 512MB DDR I’m pretty sure. Thanks for your reply, it makes sense. I’ll just increase the audio buffer and hopefully the problem should go away
super_crunchyhi frits
This discussion has made me think – how does Podium’s disk streaming work? When does it decide to stream from RAM, when from disk?
super_crunchyHi Frits
I have done some testing with audio buffer sizes, and no matter what I set the audio buffer to, the problem remains.
I need to optimize the disk streaming in Podium at some point. I’m aware that this is not efficient when there are a lot of audio tracks playing.
It even occurs when I have only one or two audio tracks playing (so, it’s not just when there are many tracks playing at once)
Can we stream our audio from disk only instead of RAM? My hard drive should be able to handle the job with ease…
ZynewaveThis discussion has made me think – how does Podium’s disk streaming work? When does it decide to stream from RAM, when from disk?
Podium will use up to a certain percentage of the available physical RAM for caching any audio that is loaded from file. When this limit is reached it will start to flush the oldest cached audio before loading new audio into memory. If the audio is recorded or editied, i.e. not saved to a wave file yet, then the audio is flushed to temporary files in the sound file cache folder (configured in the preferences dialog). You should make sure that this folder is located on your fast harddrive.
It even occurs when I have only one or two audio tracks playing (so, it’s not just when there are many tracks playing at once)
Did it always behave like this, or did this start with a certain release version?
super_crunchy@Zynewave wrote:
If the audio is recorded or editied, i.e. not saved to a wave file yet, then the audio is flushed to temporary files in the sound file cache folder (configured in the preferences dialog). You should make sure that this folder is located on your fast harddrive.
Can you make audio that *is* saved to wave also play from a folder on the hard drive? That would be great. Now I understand why, before closing a project, that the audio played back without droputs – because it would have been playing all the audio back from the cache folder on the hard drive. Is there any reason why this kind of playback couldn’t occur all the time, instead of caching to RAM? I know other apps let you toggle between RAM and disk streaming, and for all intensive purposes I would only ever stream single samples from RAM (eg drum hits), and the rest from HD.
@Zynewave wrote:
Did it always behave like this, or did this start with a certain release version?
It wasn’t always like this. I can’t tell you what version I started getting these huge dropouts, because I have just recently been getting many of my songs to a stage where I am arranging and need to bounce all the audio to save CPU (so I can then use more VST for mixing and FX). But, it was a more recent version I’m sure. Possibly the version 1.43 where you’d improved disk streaming?
I tell you what – I’ll download version 1.42 and see if it makes a difference
super_crunchyHi Frits
After uninstalling Podium and doing tests with version 1.42 and 1.44, at various buffer sizes, I come to the conclusion that 1.42 is as badly effected as 1.44.
The first time I played back in 1.42 it seemed remarkably better, but with further testing found that it wasn’t – guess I had just been lucky that first time. When I used 1.42 at 512 samples it seemed to behave the best, but at other buffer sizes with version 1.42 it acted as badly as version 1.44 at all buffer sizes
ZynewaveCan you make audio that *is* saved to wave also play from a folder on the hard drive?
Although the files saved in the cache folder are more or less a direct memory dump, it is not going to be significantly faster than loading directly from wave files.
Is there any reason why this kind of playback couldn’t occur all the time, instead of caching to RAM?
The fastest streaming is when the audio is loaded in RAM. I believe that when your arrangement plays fine, it’s because most of your audio tracks are available in RAM. It should not matter whether disk streaming occurs from the cache files or from wave files.
Possibly the version 1.43 where you’d improved disk streaming?
The 1.43 version did not include disk streaming optimizations. It had optimized audio streaming within the engine (i.e. after the audio has been streamed from disk).
After I have completed the release I’m working on currently, I’ll probably look into optimizing disk streaming.
super_crunchy@Zynewave wrote:
The 1.43 version did not include disk streaming optimizations. It had optimized audio streaming within the engine (i.e. after the audio has been streamed from disk).
I see now that I misread it. Looking forward to any disk streaming optimizations you make. I can see it benefiting not only people like myself who bounce audio to conserve CPU, but for artists who record instruments directly into Podium (in a band type situation, ie one track for guitar, one track for bass, multiple tracks for drums…) and need it to play back correctly.
super_crunchyFrits, can you recommend any workarounds for this problem? I’m trying to bounce the Master Out of this track, and as the audio keeps dropping out it is recorded in my master WAV file
thanks
acousmodHi,
I’m not sure that I have correctly understood this discussion, but if the problem is dropouts DURING the bounce, which was my case, I have recorded within the plugin version of Bidule instead of bouncing internaly, and all has been fine (with 1.43, with previous versions I got also some dropouts).
I needed Bidule for multichannel file recording, but I suppose that it can work the same with any plugin which can record audio.
super_crunchyHi Acousmod
I have no problems bouncing any material, as I always Solo the tracks I’m bouncing the CPU never overloads. Bouncing is working just fine for me.
The problem is when I try to play back all the bounced tracks (which aren’t “whole” tracks as such, but bounced clips arrangement in different positions across the timeline).
When I try to bounce before the Master Out – the equivalent of “export track to WAV” in other hosts – all the other bounced tracks play back with audio dropouts which is then recorded into the master out WAV file.
I don’t think the plugin version of Bidule will help me, as by the time the audio reaches bidule it will already be dropping out (even though the dropouts are not present in the clips I am playing).
Thanks for the suggestion anyway š
Just out of interest, can you explain how you would use Bidule to record the output of say a VST instrument playing a midi sequence in Podium? Would you insert it on a group track and press record in Bidule?
Thanks
ZynewaveWhat samplerate are you using?
It sounds strange that you get dropouts when you only have a few audio tracks playing. If possible, email me your project file without the audio files.
super_crunchythe samplerate I use is 48Khz. I will email the project later, thanks