Topic: audio dropouts

@Zynewave wrote:

I intend to change this so that streaming of muted audio tracks is disabled if they are muted by a parent bounce track. That way bounce tracks will also reduce disk-streaming as well as CPU usage.

Yes thanks for the explanation Frits. It’s always good to know a little bit more about the more technical aspects of Podium.

I guess muted tracks should not really require any cpu resources once muted ideally (if possible), as they are effectively not needed anyway (as long as they are in a muted state), especially since they will not be heard.

If I am not mistaken Podium will use less CPU when tracks are muted even now, however more optimizations are very welcome for sure.

Either way I will take just about any solution for audio drop outs in Podium… looking forward to the optimizations. 😉

Thus if you bounce a group of audio tracks, you are actually not reducing the disk streaming. I intend to change this so that streaming of muted audio tracks is disabled if they are muted by a parent bounce track.

Thanks for the explaination, I understand better what happends some times !

I use a lot muted tracks during editing, not with bounce tracks, but in order to have different versions of a montage or often to replace a Mute Event feature.
So, for me, it will be nice if the streaming could be also disabled for all muted tracks.
Personnaly I rarely use Mute / unmute during playback because the automation tracks are not updated.

Tests with 18 channels / 32 bits / 48 kHz files, no plugin, RME driver beta 3, latency set to 1024, P4 HT 3,2 GHz, 1 Gb RAM, multithread not activated, 7200 t internal IDE drive.

Podium 1.62
– 1 file : File indicator from 0 to 20 %, very irregular, no drop outs
– 2 files : sames values but the changes are faster
– 3 files : up to 30/40 %, the bursts are faster, occasionnal drop outs even if the value stays “low”
– 4 files : higher values, very irregular, more drop outs after several minutes, but sometimes good

Podium 1.63
– 1 file : File indicator arround 0 % at the begining, but goes progressively up to 10 % after a few minutes. Moving files (that are not playing) during playback is slower than before (can take two seconds between the mouse drag and the refresh)
– 2 files : 0/1 % at begining, but can go up to 50 % or more in a irregular manner after a few minutes and can even freeze
– 3 files : 0/2 % at begining, but can go up to 50 % or more in a irregular manner with sudden bursts and drop outs after a few minutes and freeze
– 4 files : also freeze after several minutes playing.
When this happends, the sound is cut and the interface is VERY slow : it can take 20 seconds to stop Podium’s engine and Windows can become to be very slow too until I quit Podium.
RAM : the RAM used by Podium in the task manager is about 340 Mo at start but decreases during playback down to about 90 %.

Bidule :
– 1 file : 2 to 9 % disc usage depending of which file is played (I suppose that it depends on its position on the disc ?), the value remains constant during all the time
– 2 files : 4 to 12 % disc usage depending of which files are played, also constant
– 3 files : 5 to 13 %, constant
– 4 files : about 15 %, constant all the time, no drop outs
RAM used : 130 Mo, constant

Nuendo 2 :
– 1, 2, 3, and 4 files : 0 % during playback (!?), but starts at 100 % and goes to 0 very fast (less than a second with four files), no change during all the time, no drop out
– 5 files : it takes more time to go to 0 % at start, but remains constant after, no drop out
– 6 files ! : after a few seconds the values in the disc usage indicator change of direction and go to 100 % after some time resulting in sound distorsions.
Except for the 6 files test, it is possible to jump to other places during playback with only a very short interruption in the sound.
The system is not slow down.
Ram usage : 150 Mo constant or slowly growing.

I have reinstalled the 1.62 version because I don’t want to take risks during working.
I will make some other tests on another computer later, with different kinds of files (6 channels / 24 bits).

@Zynewave wrote:

Anyone has links to websites that lists track count measurements in various hosts? I tried googling without success.

While I was unable to find any specific ‘track count sites’ you could easily send us a test project and have a more accurate process of measuring performance on each of our systems.

Have a look at this one…(you may have to wait slightly for it to load)

http://www.moar.net/cubasetest/index.shtml

If we are all using the same project it will be easy to get a much clearer idea as to what effects your optimisations in 1.63 have had.

We can of course come up with our own projects (as illustrated by acousmods very detailed effort) 😉 but using the same project in Podium may simplify feedback for you, especially if many more people provide feedback.

Up to you really.

I will make a comparison with Tracktion probably.

I’ll probably use the free Kjaerhus classic plugs in Podium and Tracktion to get a better idea.

While I was unable to find any specific ‘track count sites’ you could easily send us a test project and have a more accurate process of measuring performance on each of our systems.

The test project I have uses 3GB of wave files. Should I email it to you? 😉

I just ripped some of my CDs to wave files, and dragged those onto tracks. To test the true file streaming capacity it is important to let the arrangement play long enough so that the Windows cache manager and Podiums memory buffering of wave files are flushed. When you import a new sound file, it will be profiled for the miniature waveforms, which means that the sound file will reside in the cache.

Is that 32-bit floating point or fixed point?

Floating point, that is set by default in the bounce dialog.
I work in general with 16 and 24 bits files, but I use the 32 bits files when I make premixes by bouncing in working arrangements and arranging them in a “main” arrangement. They remain editable and since I don’t want to lose quality I select the 32 bits float option (I use this like a Group function).
Generally I don’t have to mix more than three or four submixes in the “main” arrangement.

but of course it should be faster to load data from a single file than from 20 individual files

Yes, it is one great advantage of Podium above the other multitrack softwares 😀

Do you mean moving sound events on tracks?

For example pushing a sound forward on the same track.
All the GUI actions seems to be slower.

I thought you mentioned in an earlier post that Nuendo only could play 12 channels. Are you playing the full 18 channel files in Nuendo?

Nuendo can play and process files with more than 12 channels, BUT due to its bus limit, we can only hear the first 12.
For example I can apply destructive filtering or timestretching on 24 channel files, but I can only listen to them when they are imported in Podium.
Since it plays and I can hear the first 12 channels of the 18 channels files, I suppose that all the interleaved files are read ?
Although, the “0” percents seems to be inaccurate !

I have tried with theses files because I thought that it could show a different behaviour than multiple stereo files.
I suppose that with 6 channels 24 bits files it will look more than your own tests.

However, except this strange accumulation along the time, the streaming seems to be lower and more regular than before.

If you have other hosts, it would be interesting to know how they compare to this Podium release.

Ok…

I can get up to 57 tracks in Tracktion 2 using the exact same test I used in 1.63 (multiprocessing off).

CPU usage in Tracktion is about 90 – 95%

57 Tracks with 57 instances of the Kjearhus classic compressor looped over two bars with a 16 bit wave file on each of the 57 Tracktion tracks.

I reached 47 tracks before hitting 100% in 1.63. 47 instances of the classic compressor were used with 47 16bit wave files on each track.

Just missed your post…

@Zynewave wrote:

It was just a joke. I don’t intend to email you 3GB of wave files. As I described previously, it’s just a basic arrangement where you drag your choice of wave files onto new tracks.

Sorry that went over my head 8)

Is that 82 different wave files playing?

It is 82 wave files playing but 81 of them are copies. Each on thier own track. Would this make any radical difference or any at all?

You mentioned some time ago that you had old projects that could not play without gaps in the audio. Do these projects play ok with 1.63?

So far so good 🙂 I will have to throw a bit more at 1.63 to be 100% sure but it does appear to be flawlesss at the moment. I’ll try more projects to see how it handles.

Cheers. 8)