acousmod.
ConquistadorHi Frits,
I recently picked up an Echo Audio Fire. It works in Vista and XP with Podium but also has the following problem in XP and Vista in Podium…
When I start up one of my existing projects that previously used the FA66 I had installed, Podium will allow me to change the device used from the the Audio Tab of the MIDI / Audio interfaces settings and let me switch to the Echo Audio Fire, but it will not show the correct Audio inputs or midi inputs in the Track panels.
If I start a new project then it will update properly in the track panel and the Devices column on the project start page but with existing projects…no way.
I have at least 20 projects that I have to work on and at the moment I just cannot get the inputs to show up in Podium (Audio or MIDI).
I have tried this in both XP and Vista. Sonar picks up the Audiofire with no problems, at the first attempt on Vista while Project 5 and ACID Pro 6 also detected the Echo interface with no problems at the first time of asking on XP, including the Audio inputs and MIDI inputs.
P5 and ACID Pro 6 also allow me to use the Echo Audiofire inputs with existing projects for those hosts.
It looks like Podium cannot (not yet anyway) update an existing project automatically with a new soundcard. It is as if Podium does not yet provide an auto update process for new soundcard devices for any existing project….only new projects.
Hopefully it is just something I am doing wrong here. Any help would be very much appreciated.
Thanks!
ZynewaveThe audio input/output mapping objects will not automatically adjust to changes in interface selection. I could add a menu command to the project page that will modify the audio mapping objects to the current interface selection. Something to do after time-stretching is implemented. For the time being you’ll have to manually create new mapping objects for the additional channels in your Echo Audio Fire. All you need to edit in the mapping properties is the name and the starting channel number.
Conquistador@Zynewave wrote:
The audio input/output mapping objects will not automatically adjust to changes in interface selection.
I was hoping you would not say that. I guess I knew that was the case but somehow hoped it was not. 🙁
I could add a menu command to the project page that will modify the audio mapping objects to the current interface selection.
A good idea…yes please. Otherwise the flip side is a huge amount of work updating large numbers of existing projects. Which is the rather time consuming problem I have now.
Something to do after time-stretching is implemented.
That’s fine Frits. At least you have suggested a solution and I know timestretching kind of has to be completed first as it has been put off for a variety of reasons before. So I look forward to the new menu command you suggested.
For the time being you’ll have to manually create new mapping objects for the additional channels in your Echo Audio Fire. All you need to edit in the mapping properties is the name and the starting channel number.
Ok. Until the menu command you suggested arrives I will have to manually sort it out. I will definitely try your suggestion. Thanks. 😉
ConquistadorHi Frits,
I was not sure if I should start another thread for this problem but I think as they are related I might as well post it here. Sorry.
Ok..
If I change the layout of my VST folder from say…
…all plugins listed as A,B,C & D to…Compressors, EQ’s e.t.c (up to 10 categories) it can become very tedious to try to manually re- arrange all the plugs in the Devices: Area of the Project Start page.
Especially if one has over 20 projects like I do.
What would be far easier would be if one deletes all FX and instrument mappings in the Devices: area one could just point Podium to the new re structured folder and Podium will import all those mappings into Podium correctly…yes we can do this already but Podium will not re map mappings to any tracks that are using the mappings that have been deleted from the Devices area.
Sadly any mappings that are active on tracks in that project are now totally lost.
It bascially means you cannot delete the mappings in a project from the Devices Area (Project start page) because you will have to re map and re set all the presets and settings all over again.
So if you re structure your VST folder at any point and (as I have done) add or remove certain VST’s (which I have also done and is hardly uncommon) then you really have to start that project all over again to avoid a very tedious process of removing ‘dead’ VST’s that are no longer in a VST folder but now appear highlighted in the Devices area.
One also has to manually re-arrange all the mappings into any required new layout as well, by shuffling mappings back and forth into a new VST plugin layout in the Devices: area on the project start page. Really tedious. Sorry Frits.
If Podium could retain all the information required for any FX or Instruments used, even if they are deleted that would be great.
For instance in Tracktion, Sonar, P5 or FL studio if you totally re-arrange your VST folder it makes no difference to the actual mappings or plugins in any projects that were saved with them in those hosts.
Provided you point any of those hosts to a folder where those plugs are currently, they will “see” the plugs and any”missing” plugs re appear (with previous presets and settings intact) in any projects that use them once loaded.
This is not possible in Podium AFAICT and can take so much time to sort out.
Can you please consider some sort of automapping process for Podium that will allow a user to delete an existing VST folder stucture and simply import the new one but…also not lose all their FX and instrument settings if a project already has mappings in use?
The original problem I had (First post) is related because, the hardware Audio input and output settings as well as Midi device mappings also still do not update automatically (in the Devices: area) when a user makes changes to the ASIO interface they want to use…MID/Audio interface > Audio > ASIO interface.
Of course you have things you are currently working on so this is just to remind of this problem and birng the other issue (perhaps we discussed the VST issue before) to your notice.
It would be great if you can take some time to look at these two problems at some point in future.
Thanks.
rinxai@Conquistador wrote:
Can you please consider some sort of automapping process for Podium that will allow a user to delete an existing VST folder structure and simply import the new one but…also not lose all their FX and instrument settings if a project already has mappings in use?
+1
This is also an issue for me, as updating and testing new plugs and then consolidating into a tidy list of devices does eat up a fair bit of time.
jpleongAdd my voice, I suppose. Though, the auto-interface routing/naming issue is a bigger thing for me -since I use different devices depending on my location (home/office/mobile).
JP
Conquistador@rinxai wrote:
@Conquistador wrote:
Can you please consider some sort of automapping process for Podium that will allow a user to delete an existing VST folder structure and simply import the new one but…also not lose all their FX and instrument settings if a project already has mappings in use?
+1
This is also an issue for me, as updating and testing new plugs and then consolidating into a tidy list of devices does eat up a fair bit of time.
That is exactly what I am trying to get across here. “updating and testing new plugs” is simply part of the whole Audio and Midi host experience. Podiums is easily the most problematic and time consuming to use for this IMO compared to every other host I have used for that purpose. Every.
Having a tidy list is essential to a quick workflow. Set and forget.
My only choice currently is to to go through a list of between 50 – 75 plugs and sort them out. So I will have to re arrange each of the plugs I want to keep (probably 50 at least). At this point I have started to lose interest in finishing that project. Big problem.
You see the more projects I create with Podium like this the bigger the problem will get…why? Any changes you make to your folder layout in one project…do not appear in other projects automatically. So the more projects you create in future the more projects you will have to “adjust” in future if you change your hardware, VST plugin layout or plugins used / scanned.
Having per project VST layouts is a flexible approach but completely un workable if you make changes to your VST plugins (you will lose active track mappings if you delete them) especially working with more than one project.
So once you have taken a huge amount of time sorting everything out…if you have more than one single Podium project on your hard drive or in my case more than 20..you are looking at a totally unrealistic amount of time spent re arranging every single individual projects VST layout in each one of their Devices: areas on their project start pages.
So the problem gets worse the longer Podium is used to create more projects. Because at some point it is very likely one will want to make at least some level of changes to plugin layouts or just change what plugins they use and have visible.
I currently will have to carefully (for each folder) ctrl click the plugs I don’t want to keep and delete them. Bear in mind this is one of 20+ projects I have to do this for! I think it is a very unrealistic expectation to have of a user.
Add my voice, I suppose. Though, the auto-interface routing/naming issue is a bigger thing for me -since I use different devices depending on my location (home/office/mobile).
JP
Another big problem for me. Combine the two issues raised in this thread together…and it IMO is just not workable.
Counter balance…
I appreciate if Frits could flick a switch to fix this or refine it he would have done so the first time he became aware of it.
So I understand it may be tricky to solve…but the problem remains and I simply can’t work this way. I will gladly wait for a solution to appear which I think will happen when Frits has time to look at it.
He has to prioritise his workload and no user or group of users are special of course. I just hope a solution can be found sooner rather than later as I really want to get back to finishing those projects in Podium. Sadly ‘manually’ sorting these problems out in Podium is simply not an option for me.
[Thread title has been changed to reflect the subject matter a bit better]
kingtubbyI’ve probably got this wrong – and it wouldn’t be the first time 😉 – but I have a default project that I keep updated with plugins and so on. If I go back to an older project that has become outdated I just copy the old arrangement folder to the current default project and resave. It seems to work for me, but as I say I’ve probably missed some crucial point here…
Mart.
Conquistador@kingtubby wrote:
I’ve probably got this wrong – and it wouldn’t be the first time 😉 – but I have a default project that I keep updated with plugins and so on. If I go back to an older project that has become outdated I just copy the old arrangement folder to the current default project and resave. It seems to work for me, but as I say I’ve probably missed some crucial point here…
Mart.
Good idea… (and I do make use of default projects):wink: but if I already have FX and instrument mappings on tracks in the older project (using your example) then I will lose those track mappings (from the older project) if I tried out your solution with a new default project.
Also if I have already spent a huge amount of time arranging the midi and audio data, automation e.t.c into a finished composition in the older project I would have to start that all over again.
How, using your solution would you avoid those issues?
rinxaiIn most other hosts, when re-scanning the default VST folder, the updated list is generally presented as a list corresponding to the order of the contents of the VST folder. In Podium this correspondence falls out as more plugins are introduced, since duplicate folders are generated, which requires consolidation. Perhaps a way of checking for duplicate folders ?
@Conquistador – once I deleted all vst device mappings and re-scanned so as to get a fresh updated VST device list, which is when I too discovered that all fx and instrument mappings had disappeared from older projects.
The thing is that having to regularly tend to keeping things orderly feels like an unnecessary chore, seemingly overcomplicated.
@kingtubby – neat idea – i will try this!
I’m confident Frits will dish out some kung-fu code when when happens.
🙂
kingtubby@Conquistador wrote:
Good idea… (and I do make use of default projects):wink: but if I already have FX and instrument mappings on tracks in the older project (using your example) then I will lose those track mappings (from the older project) if I tried out your solution with a new default project.
That’s true and a bit inconvenient in a project with lots of mappings.
Also if I have already spent a huge amount of time arranging the midi and audio data, automation e.t.c into a finished composition in the older project I would have to start that all over again.
Doesn’t the arrangement remain intact within the arrangement folder then? Surely it does….
Edit: Actually, having made a few more tests I can see your point – I knew I would miss something important! 😕
Mart.
ConquistadorThis is just a summary of the changes I think have to be made…but I have also made mention of an idea I think will solve this problem, add unique functionality to Podium while hopefully making things easier for Frits to implement these changes by extending existing functionality…more on that later in this post.
Suggested changes
1. Auto re mapping of any FX and instruments: If any FX or VSTi mappings are still active on tracks and one should delete their VST list or layout of plugs in Devices: area once Podium is directed to the current VST folder it should…
a.Scan that folder
b.Auto re map all lost mappings from an arrangement (or prevent mappings from being lost in the first place by allowing a VST layout to be deleted from the Devices: column without also deleting track mappings). It can be done as every other host out there I have used operates this way. Sorry Frits it is a major problem in it’s current state IMO. It just gets worse when more projects are created.
2. Allow for global project wide VST settings: Currently any changes are specific to a project. While that is useful an option to allow changes made to a VST list / layout to extend to any other projects or to replace any other project VST list / Layout is a far better and frankly already a standard feature in every host I have used. Live, Tracktion, ACID, Cubase Sonar e.t.c
3. Automatic updating of Audio input / output mappings when an Audio device is changed from within an existing project: If one should start up an existing project with Audio input output mappings from an older device still visible in the Devices: area then go to MIDI/Audio interface > Audio > ASIO interface to select a new device…Podium should automatically update the Audio input output mappings that are visible in the Devices: area on the Project start page.
An idea as to how you might implement these changes…
Save Device Set ups.
I noticed that Track templates are like snapshots of part of an arrangement that can be saved and recalled into any other arrangement (within the same project). Perhaps Podium could take a snapshot of the VST layout or list for a Project that could re called by a user in any other project.
I am guessing here that the VST layout or Devices: mappings must be a separate entity (to a degree anyway) from track mappings to avoid removing them from tracks if they are deleted from the Project start page.
So perhaps instead of just allowing a user to “Save VST layout” I think allowing a user to “Save Device set up” with all current mappings (Audio input / Output, Busses FX and Instrument mappings) might make things easier for you to implement these changes. That is a guess of course, but I am just trying to help you as the developer here, as you do encourage and respond to ideas.
Currently in Podium we can already save Complete set ups or Colour set ups. So why not Device set ups? You could add a “Save Device Setup” command to the Setup Menu.
How would this work?
A user sets up a default template with all the changes they want. That saved Device set up is then saved, ready for recall into any older project that needs updating. This kind of implementation also preserves the per project mappings approach that Podium uses, so it would maintain it’s flexibility here.
Ironically I don’t know of any other host that has per project VST settings so I see no need to lose that, but of course changes must be made to address the problems raised in this thread IMO. Using the “save Device Set Up” approach would I think solve those problems.
I do also think one should have an option to make Device set up changes per project or extend to any Project. This is crucial.
So you choose “Load Device Set up” from the Setup Menu and you are then asked if changes are Per Project or for All existing projects. This could also be a global setting maybe that we could set and forget.
Another advantage of this approach…
It would not just automap or auto update hardware and VST settings in any project it would even allow a user to have multiple saved Device set ups. For instance users like jpleong could have one saved Device set up for Office another for home and a third for mobile usage e.t.c
Of course we should be able to name the saved “Device set” up whatever we want to as well.
Thoughts?
ZynewaveThoughts?
It’s going to be a post Podium 2.00 task. I’ve got my hands full with the track layout changes.
Some clarification:
The objects you see on the project start page device list are a direct reflection of the actual objects in the project. The tracks only store a link to these objects, so deleting the objects will automatically remove the object references on the tracks.
Conquistador@Zynewave wrote:
It’s going to be a post Podium 2.00 task. I’ve got my hands full with the track layout changes.
Thanks for the feedback. At least I now have a rough time scale for a solution to the problems raised in this thread and when I can hopefully return to those Projects in Podium.
Some clarification:
The objects you see on the project start page device list are a direct reflection of the actual objects in the project. The tracks only store a link to these objects, so deleting the objects will automatically remove the object references on the tracks
Thanks for the clarification. I thought that might be a possibility but of course the problem still remains, but you have have kindly given me a rough timeframe for a possible solution and I will definitely look out for that solution post 2.0.
It will be interesting to see how Podium develops between now and then (as usual), so please do keep your focus on the features you are currently working on if adding a possible solution to this problem now will sidetrack you (of course this has happened before, sorry), or is just too much work right now in addition to GP refinements, which are of course important.
Hopefully some of the suggestions rasied in this thread can aid your implementation of a solution after 2.0’s release.
Cheers Frits.
rinxaiGood points being addressed here. Conquistador, thanks for the in depth treatment. Indeed, providing a solution post Podium 2.0 makes sense and will be a very welcome improvement toward a smoother workflow.