.@Zynewave wrote:
The problem here is in the way that automation is designed in the VST spec. When a VST parameter is automated it will change the loaded patch directly. Stopping playback during automation will thus leave that parameter/patch at the last automated value. If you then restart playback at a point before the first recorded automation, it would result in a random patch (= random sound) depending on where you last stopped playback. That is why Podium always sets the parameter value at playback start.
I’m sorry but I don’t understand this at all – if this is in the VST spec then how come no other host I know of sets the cutoff or other param to zero at the start and end? Surely the “default” starting point should be the position the instrument is set to at the start of recording, not zero? Just as a comparison look at how this is handled in another host:
Note the cutoff value for this patch “kickass drone” is at 49% and even though I don’t actually touch the knob to change the cutoff value till halfway through the sequence (marked in red) the host correctly starts the envelope at the 49% position and ends at the point where I let go of the knob.
In Podium I can make the same sequence but it will drop to the cutoff to zero at the start of the track right up until the point I tweak the knob and again at the end – making the sequence silent right up until the point where I touch the knob even though I am playing notes before that. And this is just a simple sequence – imagine how this would affect a more complex sequence with lots of params being moved at different times – nothing would sound the same on playback as it did when I recorded it. That can’t be right.
@aMUSEd wrote:
@Zynewave wrote:
The problem here is in the way that automation is designed in the VST spec. When a VST parameter is automated it will change the loaded patch directly. Stopping playback during automation will thus leave that parameter/patch at the last automated value. If you then restart playback at a point before the first recorded automation, it would result in a random patch (= random sound) depending on where you last stopped playback. That is why Podium always sets the parameter value at playback start.
I’m sorry but I don’t understand this at all – if this is in the VST spec then how come no other host I know of sets the cutoff or other param to zero at the start and end? Surely the “default” starting point should be the position the instrument is set to at the start of recording, not zero? Just as a comparison look at how this is handled in another host:
Note the cutoff value for this patch “kickass drone” is at 49% and even though I don’t actually touch the knob to change the cutoff value till halfway through the sequence (marked in red) the host correctly starts the envelope at the 49% position and ends at the point where I let go of the knob.
What I was arguing for was that a host needs to set all parameter values at playback start, to make sure that the automated parameter values are consistent no matter where on the timeline you start playback. I misunderstood your post as suggesting that the host should not set the parameter values until the first recorded parameter change. That can lead to random sound. What the host can do is to set a starting point on the curve when the automation lane is created. The value of this event can be set to the current parameter value in the plugin. This value will then be played by the host up to the point where you start recording changes. I think that’s also what you see on your screenshot of the other host. There is a point at the start of the automation lane.
Questions:
If you change the VSTi patch after you created this automation lane, will this host change the starting point of the curve to match the value of the parameter in the new patch?
Can you grab the first point on the automation lane and drag it to the right on the timeline? In that case, what will the curve look like up to the first point?
Thanks for the feedback.
@Zynewave wrote:
Questions:
If you change the VSTi patch after you created this automation lane, will this host change the starting point of the curve to match the value of the parameter in the new patch?
No if you change the patch the cutoff jumps to the recorded position rather than retaining the patch position – but I would expect that.
@Zynewave wrote:
Can you grab the first point on the automation lane and drag it to the right on the timeline? In that case, what will the curve look like up to the first point?
This
But note even then it does not start at zero – it starts at the patch’s value of 49%
(The host is Energy XT 2 btw but this is what I expect as standard behaviour regarding automation of plugin values – it should always record exactly what is played)
@aMUSEd wrote:
@Zynewave wrote:
Questions:
If you change the VSTi patch after you created this automation lane, will this host change the starting point of the curve to match the value of the parameter in the new patch?
No if you change the patch the cutoff jumps to the recorded position rather than retaining the patch position – but I would expect that.
So would I.
@Zynewave wrote:
Can you grab the first point on the automation lane and drag it to the right on the timeline? In that case, what will the curve look like up to the first point?
This
But note even then it does not start at zero – it starts at the patch’s value of 49%
(The host is Energy XT 2 btw but this is what I expect as standard behaviour regarding automation of plugin values – it should always record exactly what is played)
Not entirely true.
I got curious, so I just downloaded the XT2 demo. As I anticipated: If you move the first point on the automation lane to the right on the timeline, then XT2 will not set the parameter value when starting playback before this point. In other words, if you stopped playback at a point where the parameter was automated at a low value, starting playback from zero will start out with the low value. If you stopped playback where the parameter was at a high value, starting playback from zero will start out with the high value. Thus playback up to the first automation point will be unpredictable, and will depend on where you stopped playback last. That is the situation I would like to avoid.
I’m going to extend the automation system in Podium so that a default starting point will always be inserted at the start of new curve sequences, and if it’s a VST parameter then the starting value will be grabbed from the current plugin preset. This should elliminate the problem you experience with the parameter value jumps.
