Topic: Feedback

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
  • #2727
    Poobah
    Participant

    Hi,

    Firstly, thank you very much, Frits, for Podium Free. I spent several days this week looking for a good free digital audio workstation so I could get into recording to improve my musicianship, and I finally stumbled across Podium Free. I definitely think it’s the best free one available!

    I have been very happy with Podium Free, but I have also experienced a number of crashes and some flaws in the application. The main reason I’m posting is to document the following issues that I experienced in case they haven’t already been documented or fixed in the commercial version of the product.

    Missing features:

    1. There appears to be no shared clipboard across application instances. For example, I can’t copy a track from one running instance of Podium Free and paste it into another.

    Issues

    1. There are no MIDI outputs available in imported midi files. When you import a MIDI file, it seems that each track in the file is converted to a master in Podium Free. Although these masters’ audio outputs default to the application-configured MIDI outputs, when you try to set the outputs, you can only set them to the audio outputs; you don’t have all of the options you normally have for non-imported MIDI tracks.
    2. You can’t use VST instruments for imported MIDI file tracks. If you assign a VST instrument to one of these tracks or anywhere else in the arrangement, the background colour of the instrument name turns red, and the tooltip text reads, “The device produces audio but there is no parent track device that processes audio.”. I have not found any way to produce such a “parent track device that processes audio”. The only solution I have found is to copy the track or its contents into a new arrangement so that it becomes a child of the new arrangement’s master. Perhaps a solution to this problem is to import the MIDI tracks as children of a standard master track. (However, I figure that the current implementation works the way it does for a good reason, so excuse my ignorance in this area.)
    3. I found it difficult to understand and use the “Adjust tempo” context menu commands. The descriptions in the manual where kind of hard to follow, and I couldn’t figure out how to actually use the commands, since the instructions in the manual didn’t seem to make sense. I eventually figured out what the first one does by searching on these forums. I still don’t understand what the second one does. Part of the reason this has been difficult is the commands are almost always unavailable. I eventually figured out that you have to disable the “Snap” option for them to work, but I have found that they are still sometimes not available. For example, I have one project in which the commands are absolutely never available no matter what I have tried.

    Bugs:

    1. I found a reproducable way to make Podium freeze using one of the adjust tempo context menu commands.

      1. Download this Flight of the Bumblebee MIDI file and import it.
      2. Execute the “Adjust Tempo and Stretch to Align Grid at Cursor” command anywhere on the timeline. Podium should freeze.

    2. I found another way to crash Podium, this time using the SampleTank Free VST.

      1. Set any track’s source to SampleTank.
      2. Play the arrangement containing the track.
      3. Open Preferences and change the value of “Bypass processing when detecting CPU overload”.
      4. OR change audio settings such as sample rate or ASIO driver’s buffer size.
      5. Click OK or Apply. Podium should crash.

      I don’t know if SampleTank is at fault here or not. I have tried doing the same sort of thing while running the VST in MiniHost, and I didn’t experience any problems. I observed that MiniHost seems to stop all of its audio processing while the audio settings and ASIO settings windows are open.

    3. Bounced tracks appear to be corrupted in certain situations.

      1. Bounce a non-empty MIDI track.
      2. Make a new track and record some audio (not MIDI) into it until the recording passes the length of the bounced track.
      3. Delete the audio recording you just made (not the track or arrangement).
      4. Turn off bounce playback for the bounced track.
      5. Increase the tempo significantly (this makes the bug more noticeable). For example, increase it by 50%.
      6. Bounce the track you originally bounced.
      7. Repeated step 2, except re-use the same track rather than creating a new one. Once the recording passes the length of the bounced track, the previous bounced track at the previous tempo should start being appended to the bounced track.

    I’m new to digital audio workstations and Podium Free, so please excuse any user errors that may be apparent. The program has crashed many times for me, but unfortunately, the above are the only ones that I can reproduce.

    Despite the instability problems, I am a happy user of the software; the lesson learned was to save frequently! Thanks again for this great free program.

    #21660
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @Poobah wrote:

    Hi,

    Hi. Thanks for the feedback.

    Issues

    1. There are no MIDI outputs available in imported midi files. When you import a MIDI file, it seems that each track in the file is converted to a master in Podium Free. Although these masters’ audio outputs default to the application-configured MIDI outputs, when you try to set the outputs, you can only set them to the audio outputs; you don’t have all of the options you normally have for non-imported MIDI tracks.
    2. You can’t use VST instruments for imported MIDI file tracks. If you assign a VST instrument to one of these tracks or anywhere else in the arrangement, the background colour of the instrument name turns red, and the tooltip text reads, “The device produces audio but there is no parent track device that processes audio.”. I have not found any way to produce such a “parent track device that processes audio”. The only solution I have found is to copy the track or its contents into a new arrangement so that it becomes a child of the new arrangement’s master. Perhaps a solution to this problem is to import the MIDI tracks as children of a standard master track. (However, I figure that the current implementation works the way it does for a good reason, so excuse my ignorance in this area.)

    It should be possible to have instruments assigned to the tracks of an imported MIDI file, but it requires that the instrument are present in the project before the import. There is a youtube video that shows how it can be done:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV1Eg7zToZw&list=UU5f_La02aUXMdDIWfYa_QNA&index=5&feature=plcp

    Bugs:

    1. I found a reproducable way to make Podium freeze using one of the adjust tempo context menu commands.

      1. Download this Flight of the Bumblebee MIDI file and import it.
      2. Execute the “Adjust Tempo and Stretch to Align Grid at Cursor” command anywhere on the timeline. Podium should freeze.

    Thanks. This is now fixed.

    I found another way to crash Podium, this time using the SampleTank Free VST.

    1. Set any track’s source to SampleTank.
    2. Play the arrangement containing the track.
    3. Open Preferences and change the value of “Bypass processing when detecting CPU overload”.
    4. OR change audio settings such as sample rate or ASIO driver’s buffer size.
    5. Click OK or Apply. Podium should crash.

    I don’t know if SampleTank is at fault here or not. I have tried doing the same sort of thing while running the VST in MiniHost, and I didn’t experience any problems. I observed that MiniHost seems to stop all of its audio processing while the audio settings and ASIO settings windows are open.

    I have SampleTank, and I believe I remember it crashing for me too when changing Podium settings that will cause a reset of plugins. The safe way to do it, is to first unload the plugins by switching off power in the arrangement, and then configure the engine preferences.

  • Bounced tracks appear to be corrupted in certain situations.

    1. Bounce a non-empty MIDI track.
    2. Make a new track and record some audio (not MIDI) into it until the recording passes the length of the bounced track.
    3. Delete the audio recording you just made (not the track or arrangement).
    4. Turn off bounce playback for the bounced track.
    5. Increase the tempo significantly (this makes the bug more noticeable). For example, increase it by 50%.
    6. Bounce the track you originally bounced.
    7. Repeated step 2, except re-use the same track rather than creating a new one. Once the recording passes the length of the bounced track, the previous bounced track at the previous tempo should start being appended to the bounced track.
  • This is an issue that has been brought up before. It is because Podium so far have not truncated any previously bounced audio when doing a new bounce. In cases where you shorten an arrangement and redo the bounce, the result is that only the new range is overwritten, and the old audio beyond the new range is not deleted. I have now changed this so that the bounced sound gets truncated every time a new bounce is rendered.

    #21662
    Poobah
    Participant

    Thanks for your reply.

    @Zynewave wrote:

    It should be possible to have instruments assigned to the tracks of an imported MIDI file, but it requires that the instrument are present in the project before the import. There is a youtube video that shows how it can be done:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV1Eg7zToZw&list=UU5f_La02aUXMdDIWfYa_QNA&index=5&feature=plcp

    Thanks for that. I watched the video, and now I am able to do it. Perhaps when you import a MIDI file, Podium should provide a dialog asking you what to do instead of making assumptions about some of these details. (However, couldn’t Podium just always put imported MIDI tracks inside a single audio-capable master track so that it works automatically and is structured like normal arrangements?)

    @Zynewave wrote:

    I have SampleTank, and I believe I remember it crashing for me too when changing Podium settings that will cause a reset of plugins. The safe way to do it, is to first unload the plugins by switching off power in the arrangement, and then configure the engine preferences.

    Thanks for the tip; I hadn’t used that button before. Would it be a good idea for Podium to automatically do this sort of thing when the audio settings are changed? It seems that some other programs do it this way.

    I think it would also be good if Podium supported horizontal mouse-wheel scrolling. Some mice support tilting the scroll wheel left and right to scroll horizontally. Standard windows controls seem to support this. Could Podium also support this so that such users can easily scroll horizontally in the arrangement editor?

    #21672
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @Poobah wrote:

    (However, couldn’t Podium just always put imported MIDI tracks inside a single audio-capable master track so that it works automatically and is structured like normal arrangements?)

    It could, and I may change this some day. Some users may work exclusively with MIDI, and so would not need the master audio track.

    I think it would also be good if Podium supported horizontal mouse-wheel scrolling. Some mice support tilting the scroll wheel left and right to scroll horizontally. Standard windows controls seem to support this. Could Podium also support this so that such users can easily scroll horizontally in the arrangement editor?

    I remember testing this a couple of years ago, and was not happy with the result. I have a mouse with side-tilt, but it provides horrible accuracy.

    #21673
    kingtubby
    Participant

    @Poobah wrote:

    I think it would also be good if Podium supported horizontal mouse-wheel scrolling.

    ‘Alt+Mouse wheel’ scrolls horizontally

    #21677
    Poobah
    Participant

    @kingtubby wrote:

    ‘Alt+Mouse wheel’ scrolls horizontally

    Thanks! This makes moving around in the arrangement editor much better. However, it’s awkward to use since it’s not a standard shortcut combination.

    @Zynewave wrote:

    I remember testing this a couple of years ago, and was not happy with the result. I have a mouse with side-tilt, but it provides horrible accuracy.

    Wouldn’t it be better to have it available for the users who would use it? The users who don’t like it could just not use it. I don’t think its accuracy is any worse than a scroll wheel; they both scroll a fixed amount that is configurable in Windows.

    Is the code for the tilt support the same as for a horizontal scroll wheel? (I mean checking for a WM_MOUSEHWHEEL window message.) I remember once having a mouse that had two scroll wheels – one for vertical and one for horizontal. It’s useful when applications support both directions rather than ignoring the horizontal scroll messages. Keep in mind that not all users have a second hand available to press the Alt key, either because they are disabled or using the other hand for something else.

    The reason I’m talking about all of this scrolling stuff is I find this aspect of the program a bit annoying. With most good Windows applications, you can scroll using a native scroll bar, horizontal scroll wheel or using the middle mouse button. With Podium, you can’t do any of these. I know that you can use the viewport thing at the top of the arrangement editor to scroll horizontally, but it also scrolls vertically, which I find annoying; I don’t want the arrangement to be scrolling around vertically when I’m trying to scroll horizontally.

    I’ve seen similarly unusual and non-standard navigation in other digital audio workstations, but I think that they provide a poor user experience. They’re definitely very functional, and users can adapt to them and become proficient at them, but it’s inconsistent with most other applications, which decreases the user experience. (Maybe Podium’s style of navigation is standard for DAWs. I’m looking at this as a newcomer to DAWs and an experienced Windows user.)

    For comparison, I find Audacity’s navigation to be a much easier and more natural experience than Podium’s because:

    • It supports Ctrl+Scroll Wheel zooming.
    • It has a standard Windows horizontal scroll-bar.

    In summary, here’s what I’d like to see in Podium regarding navigation:

    • Ctrl+Scroll Wheel to zoom horizontally.
    • A horizontal scroll bar at the bottom of the tracks screen and editor screens. (The vertical scroll bars are useless to me since I can use the vertical scroll wheel. I’d much rather have horizontal ones.)
    • Support for horizontal mouse wheel scrolling.

    A do like the program’s intuitive user interface functionality, but I think it can have a steeper learning curve for new users because of the absence of these standard features.

    #21685
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @Poobah wrote:

    @Zynewave wrote:

    I remember testing this a couple of years ago, and was not happy with the result. I have a mouse with side-tilt, but it provides horrible accuracy.

    Wouldn’t it be better to have it available for the users who would use it? The users who don’t like it could just not use it. I don’t think its accuracy is any worse than a scroll wheel; they both scroll a fixed amount that is configurable in Windows.

    Is the code for the tilt support the same as for a horizontal scroll wheel? (I mean checking for a WM_MOUSEHWHEEL window message.) I remember once having a mouse that had two scroll wheels – one for vertical and one for horizontal. It’s useful when applications support both directions rather than ignoring the horizontal scroll messages.

    My mouse only supports on/off side tilt of the wheel, which means you cannot adjust the speed of scroll as you can by rotating the mouse wheel. The WM_MOUSEWHEEL message only reports vertical scroll wheel. Considering the time required to implement this feature, and the small number of users who will find it useful, I put this feature request at a very low priority.

    The reason I’m talking about all of this scrolling stuff is I find this aspect of the program a bit annoying. With most good Windows applications, you can scroll using a native scroll bar, horizontal scroll wheel or using the middle mouse button. With Podium, you can’t do any of these. I know that you can use the viewport thing at the top of the arrangement editor to scroll horizontally, but it also scrolls vertically, which I find annoying; I don’t want the arrangement to be scrolling around vertically when I’m trying to scroll horizontally.

    If you want horizontal scrollbars in the editors, it is possible to add those by editing the editor profiles (adding a scrollbar region). Editing the profiles requires some insight into how the profiles work though, as it’s possible to mess up the editors. If that happens, use the “restore default editor profiles” setup menu command.

    The reason the horizontal scrollbars are not there by default, is because they take up space, and that there are plenty of other ways to navigate. Personally I found that I never used the scrollbars. I always use the Ctrl+Alt+Shift key combinations to activate the zoom/slide tools, or hover the mouse over the “Navigator” at the top and use the mouse buttons/wheel. If you click above/below the marked range in the navigator, you can scroll horizontally with vertical position locked.

    #21691
    Poobah
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    The WM_MOUSEWHEEL message only reports vertical scroll wheel.

    If you look closely, the message I was talking about was the WM_MOUSEHWHEEL message rather than the WM_MOUSEWHEEL one!

    @Zynewave wrote:

    Considering the time required to implement this feature, and the small number of users who will find it useful, I put this feature request at a very low priority.

    I think that’s fair enough if it really does take a significant amount of time to implement it.

    @Zynewave wrote:

    If you want horizontal scrollbars in the editors, it is possible to add those by editing the editor profiles (adding a scrollbar region). Editing the profiles requires some insight into how the profiles work though, as it’s possible to mess up the editors. If that happens, use the “restore default editor profiles” setup menu command.

    Thanks! I might try to figure that out when I have time.

    @Zynewave wrote:

    If you click above/below the marked range in the navigator, you can scroll horizontally with vertical position locked.

    I just tried that and got it to work. Thank you!

    Anyway, thanks for your time. I have actually found another reproducible way to make Podium crash, so I might detail it for you when I have time.

    #21698
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    I searched for 4-way mouse wheel scrolling, and found a couple of new Microsoft mice (MS Touch Mouse and MS Explorer Touch Mouse), which support speed-adjustable horizontal scrolling. I think the Logitech touch mouse supports 4-way scrolling as well. I’ve now spent a couple of hours adding the support for WM_MOUSEHWHEEL, for the upcoming 3.1.1 release.

    #21699
    Poobah
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    I searched for 4-way mouse wheel scrolling, and found a couple of new Microsoft mice (MS Touch Mouse and MS Explorer Touch Mouse), which support speed-adjustable horizontal scrolling. I think the Logitech touch mouse supports 4-way scrolling as well. I’ve now spent a couple of hours adding the support for WM_MOUSEHWHEEL, for the upcoming 3.1.1 release.

    Thanks! This should also help with a variety of other input devices:

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