Conquistador.
ConquistadorA slice of your time please Frits! 🙂
I have used side chaining before (not in Podium), but want to set up a simple sidechain that will duck a bass track.
Having read the Primary user guide for Crunchessor, but frankly I am none the wiser and suspect there is some small step I am missing or I have totally messed it up.
First of all a search for sidechaining on this forum brings up discussion of inputs 1+2 and 3+4 for sidechain plugs, but Crunchessor 2 only has the following mappings in Podium…
Crunchessor [Mono]
Crunchessor [Stereo]
Crunchessor [7.1]
Any idea how to set this up in Podium ??? I am quite puzzled by this. 😕
Primary user guide (Page 25 gives instructions but I think with Podium that might require a different approach)??!??
I have spent hours on this and I am totally confused at this point, any ideas please? 🙁
ZynewaveThe plugin exposes itself as a multichannel plugin rather than a multiple stereo pair plugin, so to use it as a side-chain plugin you need to do some device setup in the devices list on the start page:
Right-click “Crunchessor [Stereo]”, select “New Copy…” and the properties dialog will open.
Rename to “Crunchessor #1”.
Check “link to global instance”.
Press OK.
Right-click the new “Crunchessor #1” and “New Copy…”.
Rename to “Crunchessor #1 Side-In” (or whatever you like).
Set the “plugin output” to None.
Set plugin input “first channel” to 3.
Press OK.
You can now make multiple instance copies using the “New Instance” menu, if you want to use more than one side-chain plugin instance in your arrangement.
In your arrangement, create two tracks and assign each of the two mappings you created for one plugin instance. On the “Side-In” track, raise the send level. Set the gain to zero if you don’t want your side-chain input to appear in the mix. Make sure the fader is set at or above the effect track in the chain with the side-in mapping, or else you will mute the side-in send.
Now you need to do some setup on the “Routing” page in the plugin editor.
Select “C” and “D” in In3 and In4.
Select “C” and “D” in A and B of the “Key signal sources”.
That’s it I think. If I left something out, please let me know. All this was assuming that your side-in is stereo. You could also configure it as mono. The plugin routing setup I suggested was by trial and error, so it may not be the recommended way. You need to check the manual for that.
SlomoThanks Frits! I’m also using Crunchessor and… now even more.
ConquistadorThanks Frits. I really appreciate your effort and the amount of detail but sadly it still does not work. I followed your advice but if anything it illustrated how complex sidechaining is in Podium even if it is more flexible than most if not any other host.
I think the problem is two fold. Aleksey really IMO should have made it easier by having Crunchessor 2 expose a 1+2, 3+4 and Out mapping to Podium like Compressive but even that is proving to be a huge mountain of clicks for me to set up. Cannot get that to work either and I have seen Martin Eastwoods screen shots for an older Podium sidechain set up
Aleksey said on his forum that you have to hit play then the correct mappings show up. Seems like a host specific thing. I don’t know if that is the case for every other host out there.
A few clicks should be all that is needed. Way too much complexity for me sorry. It has to be the only aspect of Podium that remains difficult to grasp (for me anyway).
I’m going to have to find some other solution thanks. Hopefully an easier way to map side chain capable plugs can be looked at in future.
Making things easier…
No idea exactly how that might be done but something that…
a. Behaves like a command. “Sidechain set up” click on it…
b. You then are asked to pick a plugin.
c. Asks you if Podium should automatically insert the tracks and mappings needed for the sidechain would be nice.
d. Then you simply drag the audio material you want to sidechain and duck to those tracks.
As things stand right now it is incredibly complex IMO. Just giving some frank feedback Frits.
Agian thanks for the write up and guide!
swindus @Conquistador
Just a question: Do you use a side chain routing in the Crunchessor plugin too? If not it will not work. Check the Primary User Guide from Voxengo for a description how the routing works.
But I have to agree. It’s really a lot of mouse action to get a side chain compression with Crunchessor and Porium.
Conquistador@swindus wrote:
@Conquistador
Just a question: Do you use a side chain routing in the Crunchessor plugin too? If not it will not work.
I was doing that yes…, but it is part of the instructions given in the Primary user guide. Frits suggested this as well (based on the Primary user guide info, surely) But without using sidechain routing in the plugin I got this error pretty quickly…which I have not seen for a *very* long time (months or longer…)
Just a simple sidechain…is this difficult. It has to be easier in Podium.
ConquistadorFound another solution which is a mix of Frtis suggestion (thanks) and Compressive Pro’s set up…Im just editing a Sidechain tutorial on the WIKI for anyone looking to use Crunchessor in Podium for that purpose.
Hopefully users can quickly and easily be up an running after reading it.
More on what was the cause later…I need to finish the Wiki tutorial first… no sneak peaking until it is ready 😛
Frits please do evaluate if possible to see if anything is not right or can be improved in the write up cheers! 🙂
ConquistadorOk I have now wirtten 2 sidechain tutorials with a similar approach. Hopefully it will help other Podium users, (even those trying the demo) who are looking for info on Sidechaining in Podium.
I had this idea to simply mirror the names and Device Property Panels for Compressive…exactly. I did not even think it would work as the plugins appear to approach side chaining very differently.
So after creating new mappings and carefully making sure I mirrored every thing about Compressive sidechain mappings, Names, Device Property settings e.t.c…Crunchessor 2’s Sidechain mappings worked.
So what was the problem I had?
a. I could not find the “Send”.
If you drag Compressive’s 1+2 or 3+4 mapping from the Inspector to a track, the send slider in the track view is not labelled as a Send. I think it should be. This really confused me. 😕 If you click on the Mixer it is not labelled as a Send there either.
But…in the Inspectors Track Panel..it is correctly labelled as a Send. This had me scratching my head for a long time.
b. Really, even though I admire Crunchessor 2 as a plugin and I can appreciate Aleksey was going for something different and maybe even more flexible than most Sidechain capable plugs…(fair enough) it is not easy to set up AT ALL. I was pretty close to swapping Crunchessor for Compadre which also offers sidechaining but with less complexity.
I guess Aleksey is far less aware of Podium (which remains relatively low profile compared to some higher profile hosts) and simply may not have tested Crunchessor with it.
c. I have been used to a much easier process of Sidechaining elsewhere and was frankly surprised by the complexity that surrounds setting it up in Podium at least with Crunchessor 2, which is definitely *not* the first plugin I would advise someone new to Podium to use for SideChaining.
But then again with the Crunchessor 2 Sidechain tutorial written now…even complete new starters with Podium and Crunchessor 2 can be up and runnning quickly. 🙂
Sidechain Tutorials
I still think having a SideChain command of sorts is still needed to help simpify things even further in Podium though. 🙂
Did you actually get Crunchessor working with Podium as a SideChain? If so how did you do it?. If there is another way I would like to know thanks! 🙂
ZynewaveThanks for the tutorials.
Personally I prefer to work with a sidechaining plugin using two mappings/tracks instead of three. My description earlier in this topic explained how to combine the 1+2 In and 1+2 Out mappings into one. Thus the main mapping will work just like a compressor insert effect, and you can choose to ignore the side chain mapping if you don’t need that feature. In this setup only the side-chain in mapping has a send dial.
You could also reconfigure the three compressive mappings into two mappings using a similar setup.
ConquistadorCheers Frits!
To save you time…I have now added a 3rd sidechain tutorial that covers your 2 track set up.
It’s listed as a Zynewave tutorial or “-by Zynewave” (I hope that is ok) as I simply copied your text and added some bits here and there, with some images. It is less obvious that your comments are from a few of your posts here and much more like a more detailed tutorial that way
I doubt you have time to write a detailed sidechain tutrorial right now, although you came pretty close earlier in this thread. Thanks again for that. 🙂
I changed the name of the first tutorials to highlight the fact that they use 3 tracks (which can be useful as the 3rd OUT track can be used as a dedicated bounce track).
But your 2 track idea is quicker for those who do not need a dedicated 3rd output track. 8)
Zynewave@Conquistador wrote:
Cheers Frits!
To save you time…I have now added a 3rd sidechain tutorial that covers your 2 track set up.
Many thanks.
I changed the name of the first tutorials to highlight the fact that they use 3 tracks (which can be useful as the 3rd OUT track can be used as a dedicated bounce track).
But your 2 track idea is quicker for those who do not need a dedicated 3rd output track. 8)
I think you can just as easily use bounce on the main track in the two-track setup. The bounce waveform may be drawn on top of the audio sources on the track, but I don’t see that as a problem.
Conquistador@Zynewave wrote:
I think you can just as easily use bounce on the main track in the two-track setup. The bounce waveform may be drawn on top of the audio sources on the track, but I don’t see that as a problem.
Yes…of course bounce can be enabled on any track, I thought you would bring that up 😛 , however I personally prefer to work with a separate output track, but I agree having the Bounce waveform drawn “on top” is not a problem at all. Just a different way of presenting the audio waveform. If anything it gives Podium users more options and a different workflow.
You can of course also unhide the bounce track (in a two track set up) but that brings us back to three visible tracks 😛 😛 :clown: While it is actually true (you know this only too well) I am just bringing that up for a laugh. 🙂
The two or three track sidechain options do actually showcase Podiums flexibility with sidechaining very well indeed, which is an interesting offshoot from this thread. I would dare say Podium may very well offer the most flexible sidechain options in most if not *any* host.
I think Compressives Martin “Caco” Eastwood said something similar when posting a tutorial for his plug covering an older version of Podium some time ago. 😉