Conquistador.
ConquistadorI was working on a project last night and I tried everything I knew about Podium to get a simple midi clip to paste to another track.
I just could not believe that you have to drag an audio or midi clip to another track to get it there.
Silly of course as the copy function does work (used it so many times in various projects) but here is what I found out…
Podium cannot paste a clip (midi or audio) to a second, different or new track unless the original track (with the data to be copied from) has been highlighted first.
Try this simple two track test…
1. Create two tracks.
2. Create a sound event on Track 1, or drag a midi or audio clip to the track.
3. Now select Track 2. (Make sure it is highlighted).
4. Go back to Track 1 and right click on the clip and choose Copy Event make sure Track 2 (yes Track 2) is still highlighted.
5. Now try and paste that clip to Track 2.
6. Podium will paste the clip to Track 1 !
The only way to get Podium (that I know of) to paste properly is to select the Track *and* the clip everytime before copying an event. A really needless additional step IMO especially with projects that have large track counts.
It really does get far worse if you have a very busy project like me last night. I was trying to copy an event from track 3 to track 10 or 11. I just could not make out where the pasted clip was ‘disappearing to’, of course everytime I pasted the clip to another track, Podium would paste it on track 3 (the track I copied it from), even though I had an alternative track highlighted, and tried to paste there.
This behavior is very confusing. Please Frits consider allowing a user to simply select *any* clip in Podium without having to make sure the track is highlighted first because if a user does not select the track first it breaks the paste function when attempting to paste to another track.
Paste will simply not work properly. If the track you are copying from is not highlighted first then Podium will not paste a clip to another track. It will paste it to the same track you copied it from. Very strange and buggy behaviour.
The process of copying a clip works perfectly, paste will also work but only to the same track you are copying from if you do not highlight the track that has the clip you want to copy…first. Easy to spot the problem with a two track project but with many tracks, this behaviour can really waste a good deal of time.
acousmodYes, I agree that copying clips is very disturbing…
I use it often to copy clips between arrangements since it is not possible to drag them between two arrangements, and most of the time it happends what you have described.
The logical way would be to :
– click on a clip (or a selection) to select it (them)
– copy
– click on a track
– paste : the clip is pasted on this track at the cursor position.
If there was more than one clip selected, they are pasted in the relative position of the first one, if they were on several tracks they are pasted in the following tracks and new tracks are automatically created if they don’t exist.
ConquistadorExactly! ➡ 
Your suggestions are precisely the way it should work.
Your suggestions for single and multiple clips would work extremely well, far better than the current approach.
I appreciate Frits you may very well have already considered an improvement to the copy and paste functionality between tracks in Podium, but in any case please consider the suggestions made in this thread.
Thanks. 😉
soundquistI had not noticed this, but I can comfirm that it is a potentially very confusing behavior. I can imagine that it will be most obvious in large arrangements where drag-and-drop might be inconvenient.
I realize though that developer’s list for improvments must be very long… 🙄
ZynewaveWhich of these two types of copy/paste are you most frequently using: Pasting to different tracks, or pasting to another time position on the same track?
How copy/paste currently works: When you copy events on tracks to the clipboard, they are stored with a relative track offset from the current track. When you paste events they are placed on tracks that are offset from the current track.
If you want to paste events to another time position on the same tracks, then you don’t need to worry with selecting the track. But if you want to paste to different tracks, then you need to select the first track, copy, select the target track, and paste.
The logical way would be to :
– click on a clip (or a selection) to select it (them)
– copy
– click on a track
– paste : the clip is pasted on this track at the cursor position.
If there was more than one clip selected, they are pasted in the relative position of the first one, if they were on several tracks they are pasted in the following tracks and new tracks are automatically created if they don’t exist.
If this approach is used, then the track selection problem is the other way around. Copying to different tracks will be simpler. But when you want to copy/paste to a different time position you then have to select the first track that has any selected events. Otherwise the events will not be pasted on the same tracks they were copied from.
Conquistador@Zynewave wrote:
Which of these two types of copy/paste are you most frequently using: Pasting to different tracks, or pasting to another time position on the same track?
I would say I use both methods pretty much equally.
For instance there are many times when I need to paste to the same track and many situations that require pasting to a different track.
If you want to paste events to another time position on the same tracks, then you don’t need to worry with selecting the track.
Correct, but that is not the problem.
But if you want to paste to different tracks, then you need to select the first track, copy, select the target track, and paste.
That is the problem. You must first select a track (with the events to be copied) every time *then* copy the event you want to paste to a different track.
The logical way would be to :
– click on a clip (or a selection) to select it (them)
– copy
– click on a track
– paste : the clip is pasted on this track at the cursor position.
If there was more than one clip selected, they are pasted in the relative position of the first one, if they were on several tracks they are pasted in the following tracks and new tracks are automatically created if they don’t exist.If this approach is used, then the track selection problem is the other way around. Copying to different tracks will be simpler.
Much simpler. I see no problems with this at all.
But when you want to copy/paste to a different time position you then have to select the first track that has any selected events. Otherwise the events will not be pasted on the same tracks they were copied from.
“Copy and paste to a different time position”…are you talking about copying from and pasting to the same track here?
If so I don’t understand…
First you said this
“If you want to paste events to another time position on the same tracks, then you don’t need to worry with selecting the track”.
then this….
“But when you want to copy/paste to a different time position you then have to select the first track that has any selected events. Otherwise the events will not be pasted on the same tracks they were copied from”.
Please clarify?!?
ZynewaveFirst you said this
“If you want to paste events to another time position on the same tracks, then you don’t need to worry with selecting the track”.
then this….
“But when you want to copy/paste to a different time position you then have to select the first track that has any selected events. Otherwise the events will not be pasted on the same tracks they were copied from”.
The “then this” quote is the scenario that will happen if I change the paste mechanism so that pasting from track to track is easier. It’s either one or the other type of paste (track to track, or time to time) that will suffer. That’s why I asked which type of paste you most often perform.
Conquistador@Zynewave wrote:
The “then this” quote is the scenario that will happen if I change the paste mechanism so that pasting from track to track is easier. It’s either one or the other type of paste (track to track, or time to time) that will suffer. That’s why I asked which type of paste you most often perform.
Ok…thanks for clarifying that. 😉
However why must we choose between the two?
Is this because of the way Podium is set up, wired or developed?
If I must choose then I would 100% go with acousmods suggestions as the necessity to select a track first, to ensure copying and pasting works properly on the same track, is nothing compared to the current problem of pasting to different tracks especially in very busy projects.
Please if possible take onboard Acousmods ideas for copying and pasting to different tracks and if it really just cannot be avoided then as a result, I don’t mind having to select a track first, to copy events to the same track.
I just see a huge improvement in the copy and pasting process to different tracks with Acousmods ideas. They will really make a massive difference IMO. 🙂
ZynewaveHowever why must we choose between the two?
Is this because of the way Podium is set up, wired or developed?
It’s not a problem specific to Podium. How would you prevent the need for selecting a track, either when you copy/paste from track to track or time to time?
If I must choose then I would 100% go with acousmods suggestions as the necessity to select a track first, to ensure copying and pasting works properly on the same track, is nothing compared to the current problem of pasting to different tracks especially in very busy projects.
There’s a chance that some will find this a change to the worse. That’s why I would like to hear user opinions. To reiterate: If I change it to the way acousmod describes, then you have to select the very first track that has any selected events on it, to paste events to another time location on the same tracks.
Conquistador@Zynewave wrote:
It’s not a problem specific to Podium. How would you prevent the need for selecting a track, either when you copy/paste from track to track or time to time?
Not something I have looked into at development level. So really I cannot offer suggestions as to how it might be possible sorry, I was just curious.
There’s a chance that some will find this a change to the worse. That’s why I would like to hear user opinions.
Yes by all means lets get more user opinions but why make it a wholesale change for all anyway? Making it optional would please those who like it as it is and those who want the change.
Optional features provide more flexibility anyway. The more powerful hosts become, the more options they have. Not everything must be optional of course, but if some disagree why not just make it optional for those who do not like it?
It is inevitable that as Podium’s feature set increases Podium users will not agree on certain features. Nothing wrong with that. We are all different and will likely have different work methods. But like you, I am certainly interested in other opinions as well, why not?
To reiterate: If I change it to the way acousmod describes, then you have to select the very first track that has any selected events on it, to paste events to another time location on the same tracks.
Thanks for trying to make 100% sure we are clear on the matter before any possible steps are taken. I certainly do not want you to start work on something that is not actually exactly as suggested or agreed on.
You said “the very first track” I assume you mean *any* track in a project that a user wants to use to copy events to within the same pre selected / highlighted track?
It’s just the way you said it “first track” that sounds like having to select the first track in any arrangement which would not be desirable at all.
*Any* track in an arrangement that a user has events on (track 1, 27 or 50), but wants copies of those events on the same track is how I think you are saying it will now work. but with a user pre selection / highlight of the track…first? In this case track 1, 27 or 50, effectively any track in an arrangement, correct?
acousmodHi,
To reiterate: If I change it to the way acousmod describes, then you have to select the very first track that has any selected events on it, to paste events to another time location on the same tracks.
If the rule is always the same, I don’t think that it can be a problem :
– click on a clip
– copy
– click on a track
– paste
It is the behaviour in Cubase / Nuendo and doesn’t seem to be so annoying…
But what do you think about an option in the preferences to automatically select the track when selecting a clip ?
It is what happends in Samplitude and others : when you click on a clip, its track is selected and if you paste at another position, the same track is used.
If you click on another track, the clip is pasted on it.
The way it is done in Tracktion, Vegas or Reaper seems to me extremely clever.
You click on a clip to select it (the track is automaticaly selected) and copy it :
– if you don’t select a track or click somewhere, the clip is pasted after the first one (in Tracktion) or at the cursor position on the same track and then after the previous one (in the others)
– if you select a track, the clip is pasted on this track at the cursor position
– if you click somewhere in the track area the clip is pasted at this position on the corresponding track.
It is hard to make more intuitive to use, and it works the same for multiple selection.
Conquistador@acousmod wrote:
But what do you think about an option in the preferences to automatically select the track when selecting a clip ?
Brilliant idea.
The way it is done in Tracktion, Vegas or Reaper seems to me extremely clever.
You click on a clip to select it (the track is automaticaly selected) and copy it :
– if you don’t select a track or click somewhere, the clip is pasted after the first one (in Tracktion) or at the cursor position on the same track and then after the previous one (in the others)
– if you select a track, the clip is pasted on this track at the cursor position
– if you click somewhere in the track area the clip is pasted at this position on the corresponding track.
It is hard to make more intuitive to use, and it works the same for multiple selection.
Very nice. 8)
darcyb62The way it is done in Tracktion, Vegas or Reaper seems to me extremely clever.
You click on a clip to select it (the track is automaticaly selected) and copy it :
– if you don’t select a track or click somewhere, the clip is pasted after the first one (in Tracktion) or at the cursor position on the same track and then after the previous one (in the others)
– if you select a track, the clip is pasted on this track at the cursor position
– if you click somewhere in the track area the clip is pasted at this position on the corresponding track.
It is hard to make more intuitive to use, and it works the same for multiple selection.
This makes sense….
ZynewaveBut what do you think about an option in the preferences to automatically select the track when selecting a clip ?
That may be a solution, but it should be optional. Auto-selection of a track would mean the track inspector would be updated, and if you use the MIDI input focus track option the instrument played may change. Not always desirable if you have selected an instrument track for monitoring, and want to adjust events on other tracks.
It is hard to make more intuitive to use, and it works the same for multiple selection.
Do the hosts you mention have a ‘focus track’ feature? If you select multiple events on multiple tracks, do all the tracks then get selected?
duncanparsonsMyself, I drag’n’drop with the key modifiers.. very simple and straight fwd.. 🙂
DSP