Topic: Preview 2.09: Piano roll editor updates

@H-man wrote:

BTW, the layers idea I quite like. For someone who has been trying to finish a skin for a plugin for six or so weeks, I would have to say that it vastly changes the creative paradigm.

It might be a harder one to code, but it seems the best choice for integrating some creative fiddling into podium in a way that fits podiums workflow best.

whatelse could be done with layers?
– layer clips could be “transparent” (adding to the events underneath) or “opaque” (replacing events underneath it).
– “clipped” draggable edges, so the sequence within it could be bigger, the clip range working like a selection window. (it might only show a part of whats on the layer)
– could be merged

Just had a quick look using the beta with the usb-sticked podium, that I can use on my work computer.
The button panel really does the trick for me.
Inputing and editing notes is an absolute joy now, and you found a great place to put the buttons.
Can’t wait having a real session with it on my music computer.
Thank you!!! 🙂

@Pigini wrote:

whatelse could be done with layers?
– layer clips could be “transparent” (adding to the events underneath) or “opaque” (replacing events underneath it).
– “clipped” draggable edges, so the sequence within it could be bigger, the clip range working like a selection window. (it might only show a part of whats on the layer)
– could be merged

But IMHO all this can be achieved by putting separate events into child tracks of the track with VSTi, everything needed is already present. Sorry for being in that ‘do not add overlapping or duplicate features’ crowd again 😉

@pavouk100 wrote:

@Pigini wrote:

whatelse could be done with layers?
– layer clips could be “transparent” (adding to the events underneath) or “opaque” (replacing events underneath it).
– “clipped” draggable edges, so the sequence within it could be bigger, the clip range working like a selection window. (it might only show a part of whats on the layer)
– could be merged

But IMHO all this can be achieved by putting separate events into child tracks of the track with VSTi, everything needed is already present. Sorry for being in that ‘do not add overlapping or duplicate features’ crowd again 😉

😈 Arrgh, Restistance is futile! 😈 (always wanted to do that..)

🙂 No prob, I first thought it could all be done with tracks myself.

…but then I realized, they are just not as good a solution for some tasks, for others they are not suited at all. (There are 2 posts about possible tasks for layers, and there are surely many more poss., I did not think of)

I don’t have the time right now to elaborate on that in detail. But one thing is, creating a huge amount of tracks in track view and in the mixer, when I just don’t need or want them, really is an unnecessary bloating and crowding with tracks.
(I know, I could do many things to stuff them away, making it look slimmer. But the point is, for the tasks, I’m thinking of, you never want or need them in the first place, with all the mixer channels etc.)

I think including layers would be a major feature and mean quite a big amount of work for Frits, but IMHO they would fit into Podiums basic concept, adding a third dimension to it. I see it like another basic element, to open up lots of ways to use it and to combine it with other elements in podium.

I’m not “urging” the whole layer stuff into the discussion, but as a possible thing, that could be added to the piano roll, I felt it belonged into “our bag of ideas”.

Edit: In all the references regarding possible uses of layers, I was exclusively thinking of advanced fiddling with the midi data in the piano roll. Maybe that was not completely clear.

I would prefer that the shorter note was not deleted. Perhaps the duration of the shorter note could be a default minimum of the quantise value?

I don’t know if there is a one-size-fits-all for this however I wouldn’t want to lose any of those ‘happy accidents’ ….accidentally.

@Zynewave wrote:

Next up is resizing all selected notes when using the mouse to resize one of the selected events. One question though:

Say you have two note events selected, one longer than the other. What should happen if you click the longer note and drag the size shorter than the other selected note. Should the shorter note be deleted, or should it be set to zero duration producing only a short click when played back?

I think it should shorten until a certain minimum is reached. If quantization was on, setting the minimum to the quantization value sounds fine, if not the minimum could possibly be defined somewhere where it could be changed, if needed. Does not need a prominent place in the preferences, the default could be something practical for most (1/128 note?).
Setting it to zero duration or deleting the note sounds not very desirable to me.

Another thing about changing durations for multiple selected notes:
I remember in muzys after resizing a box appeared, where one could choose how the duration change should be done.
absolute: sets durations of all selected notes to the value of the changed note.
relative: subtract the same amount from every note, like from the changed note.
percent: that’s the thing most hosts have, it scales every selected note proportionally.

Maybe in podium a similar choice of behaviours could be included?

edited:spelling

I don’t mind the minimal value examples, set in snap or such. But also, I’ve seen software (I believe) shrink the large note only as much as the small note can shrink. In other words if you have a note with length 2 and a note with length 3 and reduced it as much as possible, the larger note 3 would only reduce to length 1.

If you don’t do it this way, then I ask what happens if they then stretch the longer note even smaller while the small one remains unchanged, and then stretch it out again? Then both notes could end up the same size, if you stretched the 3 length one to 0, which would also reduce the 2 length one to 0, and then stretched out by 2, would the long AND short one be length 2, or would the longer one be length 2 and the shorter one only 1, maintaining the same distance between them?

That still leaves the problem of the 0 note length. I don’t think that’s healthy, but I’m not sure I like the minimum snap value thing either. Honestly, I’m not sure which side I sit here.

As for maintaining a ratio, I suppose that could be useful in some instances, but I think in too many cases it could be unwanted. I have often, when composing, gone to reduce all notes in a clip by, say a quarter length, no matter their length. Ratio stuff means I would then need to select notes only of that same length to adjust them, or I will get unexpected results for me.