Topic: Preview 2.09: Piano roll editor updates

Hi Frits, I’ve trying multiple resizing but, honestly, it’s a little weird.

1. The minimun note lenght should be the piano roll snap if it’s enabled, and no zero. Usually people don’t use “clicks” sounds! Another related problem: imagine that you have a chord in the start of a clip and it’s reduced to zero, you cannot select it

2. Podium forces notes to snap when resizing. This is a BIG problem. If you have some 1/8 notes, and a 1/8 dotted note, if you get longer all them and the snap is in 1/8, the 1/8 notes would be 1/4 notes, and the 1/8 dotted would be 1/4 notes also!!! (when its lenght should be a 1/4+1/16). This also is a problem when you have the notes with a starting quantization, you would lose the quantization!

Best regards 😉

first things first
about feat. introduced in beta 4:

the quick button panel, when used with the pencil tool is not as good as it could be. it really only mirrors, what could be done with the selector box on top. (it’s quicker, but it could be so much more).

the quickbuttons should set the (fixed) duration for the next notes to be drawn. that’s what I had in mind for them.
as long as the 1/8-button is selected, I always want to draw an 1/8 value, no matter what the last drawn (and possibly edited) note was, no matter what the snap setting is.

edit: actually drawing is not the word, I want to pick&put (select in the quick button panel and put it in with a time based snap guidance, independent from the notes duration)

in many cases, the snap implementation, as it is now, is an obstacle for quickly drawing notes, the way you want them. it sets kind of a grid for durations.
IMHO an additional snap setting, a snapping to timing, could fix that.
maybe change the snap button to a selector box, where first choice:none, second choice: the usual, third choice: snap time. on that option, the selector box with the note lengths on top would define a snap grid, to which time values of drawn notes (selected with the quick buttons on the left) would snap.
or change the way the top selector works if quick buttons are selected to be shown.
Example:
snap option: snap time
selection in top selector: 1/8
choose any note button from the quickbutton list and draw that note, having it snapped to time positions in a 1/8 snap grid.
It does not necessarily need to be done like that.
But the aim is, having quickbutton note values snapped to chosen timing positions, rightaway when drawing.

the main idea with the quick buttons was to have predefined notes, that can be placed at the right timing in pencil mode without the need for editing.

in selection mode, the editing using the quick buttons works excellently.

@Zynewave wrote:

The suggestion of a resize option dialog on mouse release is not practical, as the resizing is now done in realtime.

That was only how another host did it. Only wanted to mention, that there are different ways a resize could be done.
@Zynewave wrote:

Support for proportional/percent resizing could be implemented either by an alternative key shortcut on clicking, or by adding a new “Split/Resize Note Events” dialog. This dialog can have a number of different edit options. One of these could be “resize notes” with a related percentage value input box. Another edit option could be “split notes into even slices” with a value input box. That satisfies a previous FR on this thread. Other edit options could be “split notes on quantize grid”, “split notes at edit cursor”, etc.

Oh yes, please. 🙂
I really would like to have that options.
… all of them, the proportional/percent resizing and the splitting.
an extra key shortcut for the proportional resizing would be very practical too. Brilliant.

@LiquidProj3ct wrote:

Hey man, instead of dragging multiple notes simultaneously, I can drag them individually also in order to change their lenghts. But that’s not the idea. I think that the idea of interface is make it easy & functional, and those are my suggestions for do it easy and ‘workflowable’.

What you want sounds like the afforementioned proportional scale(each selected note scaling equally in percent). Is it that what you want?

Frits hasn’t implemented that (yet), but offered it as an option.
What is implemented now, is:
If you make one note longer by 1/8, all selected notes get added the 1/8 amount to their value. Does not matter wether snap is on or not, you’re always adding the same absolute amount to the basic value. Works the same way with subtraction too.

I would prefer having the proportional scaling as the default behaviour and the equal adding of the same value as a second option. I do need the proportional scaling much more often, just like you seem to.

Oh yes, the mockup is a great example of how much better a picture can explain some things.
If I’m not mistaken, your first selector would allow to select the snap grid value (what I called time snap), then there are the quick note buttons, and a seperate quantize on/off button for snapping to duration aswell?

So I could achieve what I want by choosing my snap grid, selecting my quick note buttons and off I go placing them snapped to the desired timings, without getting an unwanted quantization.
That kind of unlocking time and duration snap might work better for the scale function too.

That’s it.
Agree, the buttons would be more accessible in most cases, if they where at the top. Though, I liked them at the left aswell, esp when using the new velocity check on the keys. An undockable floating panel would be ideal for the shortest mouse movements and could speed up the input quite a bit in the long run.

Thanks you Frits, now it’s much more comfortable work with it 🙂

However, I was working in a song and my cell phone ringed. When I come back I saw this:

The text:

OS: Windows XP Home Edition, SP3
CPU: GenuineIntel, Intel P6 (Model 14), MMX @ 1990 MHz

Module name: C:Archivos de programaZynewavePodiumPodium209_beta6.exe

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However Podium didn’t crash.

Best regards

EDIT: After close these windows, Podium closed itself without ask

@Zynewave wrote:

New options in the piano roll properties dialog:
“Alt+Double-click+Drag to resize proportionally”
“Create clone of selected note with pencil tool”

In piano roll properties, we have the Note event action Alt+Click+Drag left/right to resize.
We can do that without Alt already, at least in pencil mode.
In select mode Alt+Click+Drag up/down resizes the velocities.

Alt+Double-click+Drag to resize proportionally
Find the double clicking and dragging a bit hard to do (always tend to release the second click). Could the default behaviour get changed or reassigned? How about having selectable shortcut options like the pencil tool actions above? I would like to be able to make the proportional resize the default behaviour, where I don’t need to press additional keys at all. Most of the time, I need the proportional resize.
@Zynewave wrote:

@Pigini: By disabling that last option you will always add notes of the set quantize length.

Ah, that’s much better. Takes care of always putting the last drawn value in. Thanx 🙂 Good achievement/effort ratio, btw.

However, timing snap and quantize snap are still locked together.
Maybe it would be beneficial for other (future) functions too, to disentagle them. It’s keeping us from getting the best possible input options.

Here is what we can do now:
– Quickly put in standard notes, with and without snap.
– Snap places a hidden grid into the bar, that limits the chosen notes to be placed only at time positions, that are multiples of their own value (IMHO, that’s an unnecessary limitation).
– We can choose a shorter note value with snap to get a finer grid and then draw the note longer. By that we can place a 1/4 note after a 1/16 rest.
– We can choose a shorter note value with snap to get a finer grid, place the notes at the right timings and then Alt+Click on quick note buttons to change their length quickly to what we want.
– We can quickly put in standard notes, roughly estimating the rests we want inbetween, then select them and quickly quantize their timings to a chosen start position. Works ok somehow, if one is good at guessing.

Compared to how it was before, we already have much more creative options now, and all without unlocking time snap from quantize.
But coming all the way, wouln’t it be worth considering doing the final step into town?

Here is what we can’t do:
– something like snapping to 1/16 values directly when putting any chosen quick note in, or something like choosing a quarter with snap on and letting it “syncopade” into the next bar.

The second editing stage, we often need now, could be avoided, if we could directly put in defined notes onto a snap grid, different from the chosen note value.

What Conquistador did in his mockup shows a good possible solution for that.
1. selector for (time) snap grid
2. quick note values
3. Quantize on/off (could be just Q for taking up lesser space).