Conquistador.
Zynewave@LiquidProj3ct wrote:
However, I was working in a song and my cell phone ringed. When I come back I saw this:
What brand of cell phone? Maybe Podium isn’t compatible with your cell phone 😉
The “protection error” messagebox is not a dialog that belongs to Podium. It must be a plugin or a rewire app that shows this.
Did your PC go into standby/sleep mode before you returned from your call? Some ASIO drivers fail if the PC enters standby mode.
LiquidProj3ctYeah! I hate my cell phone! 😛
I think that my PC didn’t go to sleep mode.
I was using Gladiator, Warmverb and Firebird, these plugins attempts to “call home” when they are loaded, but I didn’t know that they attempt that in any momment. I hate that silly copy protection of tone2 plugins…
BTW, I’m selling the Firebird (and maybe Warmverb… i’m really sick of that copy protection) licence… if anyone is interested…
Thx!
PV_INC[1] Zooming in will subdivide the grid irrespective of snap size. A simple way to understand this is comparing to Cubase. In Cubase, if you select to show the grid as quarter notes, zooming in will always preserve the grid to show quarter notes. In Podium it keeps on dividing the grid as you zoom in and doesn’t care what the snap size. I find this makes it incredibly hard to know where I am and I often wind up being off by one or two cells when trying to guess where a note should go.
[2] Double clicking the right half of a cell will make a note appear in the cell to the right of it. The only place you can double click inside a cell to get the note there is in the left half of the cell. Meaning, one has to be super careful when inputting notes (for no good reason, really)
These two things == super frustrating piano roll
thanks.
LiquidProj3ct@PV_INC wrote:
[1] Zooming in will subdivide the grid irrespective of snap size. A simple way to understand this is comparing to Cubase. In Cubase, if you select to show the grid as quarter notes, zooming in will always preserve the grid to show quarter notes. In Podium it keeps on dividing the grid as you zoom in and doesn’t care what the snap size.
I’m agree, that was my first feature request for piano roll
Conquistador@Pigini wrote:
Oh yes, the mockup is a great example of how much better a picture can explain some things.
If I’m not mistaken, your first selector would allow to select the snap grid value (what I called time snap), then there are the quick note buttons, and a seperate quantize on/off button for snapping to duration aswell?
Yes that is pretty much it. Samplitude (where the screen shot is from) has some strange mixes of translated German to English that does not simplify the process of finding out what is what at times.
So essentially, quickbuttons on top would make things difficult for me, as long as the menu can’t wrap around. Floating panel or left from the piano roll (as it is now) would work.
The floating bar is a very good idea. Something I could dock / snap next to the current buttons e.t.c in the PR.
I would also most certainly be interested in some sort of region properties option or similar so that I could move it above the PR…and away from the keys…at the very least.
Pigini@PV_INC wrote:
[1] Zooming in will subdivide the grid irrespective of snap size. A simple way to understand this is comparing to Cubase. In Cubase, if you select to show the grid as quarter notes, zooming in will always preserve the grid to show quarter notes. In Podium it keeps on dividing the grid as you zoom in and doesn’t care what the snap size. I find this makes it incredibly hard to know where I am and I often wind up being off by one or two cells when trying to guess where a note should go.
The grid, we see in podium, is a global one. It changes according to changes of time signatures in the arrangement view (bar count changes).
I got lost in it myself, occassionally. The way it is linked to the zoom works much better with lower resolutions, though that’s not a favourite option when owning a TFT with a high native resolution.
Maybe it would be in many ways better to inherit only the bar strokes from the global time signature grid and show in each midi parts piano roll the snap grid of your choice.
Right now, podiums actual snap grid is invisible and the snap button triggers time snap and duration quantize at the same time. The grid lines, you see have nothing to do with the snap. It gets more obvious when placing snapped dotted or triplet notes.
@PV_INC wrote:
[2] Double clicking the right half of a cell will make a note appear in the cell to the right of it. The only place you can double click inside a cell to get the note there is in the left half of the cell. Meaning, one has to be super careful when inputting notes (for no good reason, really)
There is no reliable rule in which half of the cell to place a note, since the visible grid has nothing to do with the snap.
The afforementioned “invisible” time&duration snap grid always starts at the beginning of a bar. Choose 1/4 dotted note with snap on, put a few notes in and you’ll see. (In piano roll properties you should disable “Create clone of selected note with pencil tool”, then you can always put in the chosen note value from the quick buttons).
When knowing what the grid shows and how the snap works, I found it not as confusing to work with as I did before. Though it’s still way off from being ideal.
PV_INCThere is a reliable way. (in regards to [2])
Zoom the grid to whatever level is needed so that the grid shows 1/4 notes
Set the snap to 1/4 notes
Double click it in the rightmost horizontal half of any cell to create a new note
RESULT: Note appears in the cell next to the cell you decided on
Pigini@Conquistador wrote:
@Pigini wrote:
Oh yes, the mockup is a great example of how much better a picture can explain some things.
If I’m not mistaken, your first selector would allow to select the snap grid value (what I called time snap), then there are the quick note buttons, and a seperate quantize on/off button for snapping to duration aswell?Yes that is pretty much it. Samplitude (where the screen shot is from) has some strange mixes of translated German to English that does not simplify the process of finding out what is what at times.
So it’s no mockup based on what I’m preaching here. 😮
But, isn’t it interesting to see what those Magix-guys came up with after thinking it through? 😉
@Conquistador wrote:
The floating bar is a very good idea. Something I could dock / snap next to the current buttons e.t.c in the PR.
I would also most certainly be interested in some sort of region properties option or similar so that I could move it above the PR…and away from the keys…at the very least.
Yes, a floating panel would be the most flexible way.
Btw, I only just realized, that you were referring to the piano roll view in the arrangement screen, when you mentioned wasted space left from the PR.
Since I don’t have much space on my 10 inch screen, I don’t use the piano roll part in the arrangement view. I usually double click the piano roll and work in the piano roll window. There is no wasted space left from the keys and the quickbuttons are in a very accessable place there when using the piano keys for step entry. In that window you can select the event list under view.
Maybe that’s a comfortable option for you to see the eventlist when working with the PR in the arrangement screen.
Though, I find it a bit odd why the PR stretches differently in the arrangement screen than it does in the PR-window.
Pigini@PV_INC wrote:
There is a reliable way. (in regards to [2])
Zoom the grid to whatever level is needed so that the grid shows 1/4 notes
Set the snap to 1/4 notes
Double click it in the rightmost horizontal half of any cell to create a new note
RESULT: Note appears in the cell next to the cell you decided on
Of course equal note values(1/4,1/8,1/16…) happen to land on grid lines on a grid, that gets subdivided equally. That does not change a thing about what the grid shows and how it works. We don’t have a visible snap grid in podium. Though, the one we have is not without its merits.
With its link to the zoom, you always see a grid relevant to your zoom level. It helps putting in notes without snap, letting them snap to the right timings in a second step.
The Snap range is not defined in the “cell”, but around the correct timing (50% in each direction).
edit: just noticed, that you don’t own a podium license, so a big part of that beta discussion makes no sense to you.
PV_INCHi, thanks for trying to reproduce my “bug”. I either don’t understand you, or you don’t understand me. I’m not sure which. I will get around to explaining it with pictures that make everything much more obvious thank my current explanation, but, in the advent I decide to go with Podium.
Thanks anyways for trying to understand what I was saying. Maybe you’re right and I have it all mixed up.
Zynewave@PV_INC wrote:
[2] Double clicking the right half of a cell will make a note appear in the cell to the right of it. The only place you can double click inside a cell to get the note there is in the left half of the cell. Meaning, one has to be super careful when inputting notes (for no good reason, really)
I can give an explanation for this: In all Podium editors the snapped mouse position is determined as the grid line closest to the mouse. So when you click on the second half of a grid unit, Podium detects this as if you’re trying to aim for the grid line to the right. Your view is that it should always snap downwards to the grid line on the left of the mouse cursor.
PV_INC@Zynewave wrote:
I can give an explanation for this: In all Podium editors the snapped mouse position is determined as the grid line closest to the mouse. So when you click on the second half of a grid unit, Podium detects this as if you’re trying to aim for the grid line to the right. Your view is that it should always snap downwards to the grid line on the left of the mouse cursor.
The best way too design any editor is so that it doesn’t require too much thinking, as working in music can be taxing on the brain as is. Having to think about where my note goes in relation to the snap without any obvious visual queue is unduly convoluted. The simplest way to do something is usually the best. So, why not have a grid where WWSIWYG and the grid lines are set in relation to the snap, irrespective of zoom level?
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
Also, in my appeal here, I’d like to point out that Podium is really the outsider in regards to how snap works. All the other sequencers set the grid in relation to the snap to some degree, and the zoom level always maintains the grid lines in relation to the snap.
Pigini @PV_INC
I must say, I had some initial problems with the zoom linked grid, but am actually starting to like it. I can understand how confusing it is, when being used to other hosts grids and sometimes I would like to see only the snap lines, but there is no need to do literally everything the same way in every host. IMHO, they are samish enough already.
The way podium handles the snapping is not alien at all, it’s the standard time quantize. If a note is off the time quantize value, it gets dragged to the closest one.
In cubase the grid represents a drawing aid for the currently chosen note value, podiums grid is of a different nature, that’s why I recommended putting some triplets in with snap on, so that you could see it yourself.
PV_INC@LiquidProj3ct wrote:
Sugested piano roll:
This is what I’m thinking, too.. at least in regards to how the snap and the gridlines should be interrelated.
I can understand if someone was already familiar with the way it is now and wanted to keep the grid behavior as it is. I think the best solution, if possible, would be to have an option “Grid drawn to snap size” in the preferences. This preference would also disable inferring on Podiums part the closest grid based on the grid lines, and would work solely within the lines…
That’s my wish, at least… 🙂
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ZynewaveBeta7:
The timeline grid now reflects the editor snap settings. If snap is enabled and is not set to bar snapping, then the snap grid is drawn instead of the arrangement time-signature grid.
