Topic: Preview: Zynewave Nucleum

This topic contains 163 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by  H-man 11 years ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 164 total)
  • #11858

    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @podianer wrote:

    @zynewave wrote:

    @zynewave wrote:

    The next Synthmaker project I’m considering is a drummachine based on sample playback.

    Maybe I should rephrase that. I don’t intend to make a drummachine emulation with builtin sequencer. I imagine it to be a simplistic drumkit sampleplayer, that can replace the need for the Drumatic plugin in the current example project.

    It would be perfect if this sampler could use the sfz format. Since it is open source, you might consider implementing it..

    I was thinking more a dedicated drum sampler, which can be achieved relatively easily with the default components available in Synthmaker. A full-blown sampler (with support for sfz) is a far bigger project.

    #11859

    Podianer
    Participant

    @zynewave wrote:

    @podianer wrote:

    @zynewave wrote:

    @zynewave wrote:

    The next Synthmaker project I’m considering is a drummachine based on sample playback.

    Maybe I should rephrase that. I don’t intend to make a drummachine emulation with builtin sequencer. I imagine it to be a simplistic drumkit sampleplayer, that can replace the need for the Drumatic plugin in the current example project.

    It would be perfect if this sampler could use the sfz format. Since it is open source, you might consider implementing it..

    I was thinking more a dedicated drum sampler, which can be achieved relatively easily with the default components available in Synthmaker. A full-blown sampler (with support for sfz) is a far bigger project.

    Ah, ok.. I didn’t know that..
    Are you considering selling Nucleum as standalone too? Perhaps this would shed some light on Zynewave too.

    #11860

    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    Are you considering selling Nucleum as standalone too? Perhaps this would shed some light on Zynewave too.

    Maybe. That depends on what you guys think about the sound. If it is good, I could try to set it up as donationware, and with a separate download. Synthmaker also has the option to create a standalone exe of the plugin. I’ve tried this, and the feature of zooming the entire UI to full-screen looks sweet on a 1600×1200 20″ display 😀

    It’s certainly also on my mind that the plugin could be a good way to draw attention to zynewave.com and Podium.

    #11861

    Conquistador
    Participant

    @zynewave wrote:

    @zynewave wrote:

    The next Synthmaker project I’m considering is a drummachine based on sample playback.

    Maybe I should rephrase that. I don’t intend to make a drummachine emulation with builtin sequencer. I imagine it to be a simplistic drumkit sampleplayer, that can replace the need for the Drumatic plugin in the current example project.

    Even that level of functionality would be great. I would still give it at least one 😯 😛

    It would be great to just use Zynewave plugs for Podium demos. Even simple VSTi’s would be a very good start.

    I did not think you would go down that route frankly. I guess Synth Maker opens up some very nice options. FL studio 8 has a built in version of Synthmaker (you may already have heard of it) perhaps you might be interested in a Zynewave flavour of some of the 20+ creations here?

    There are some really nice efforts on the Synthmaker site.

    Would Synthmaker also simplify the development of zplugs for you?

    #11864

    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @conquistador wrote:

    Would Synthmaker also simplify the development of zplugs for you?

    No, although Synthmaker is equally suited to create effect plugins. One problem with Synthmaker plugins is that the plugins take a relatively long time to initialize when loaded. Having maybe more than one hundred Synthmaker effect plugins in an arrangement could lock up Podium for a long time when enabling power.

    Synthmaker is ideal for me to create synth plugins, since they often require a large editor window which would not fit as an embedded zPlugin editor in the Podium track inspector anyway.

    #11870

    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    I’ve updated the screenshot on page 1. I’m still having fun working on this 😀

    #11872

    rinxai
    Participant

    @jpleong wrote:

    It doesn’t look “Zynewaveish” enough!
    ……. give it more Zynewave vibe?JP

    Agreed. It would be fortuitous to have the U.Interface as consistent as much as possible.

    Would the parameters for this synth be available for automation?

    #11873

    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @rinxai wrote:

    @jpleong wrote:

    It doesn’t look “Zynewaveish” enough!
    ……. give it more Zynewave vibe?JP

    Agreed. It would be fortuitous to have the U.Interface as consistent as much as possible.

    I will try. Since this is a different development tool than the one I use for Podium, it will require a bit of work to emulate the Podium UI style in Synthmaker projects.

    Would the parameters for this synth be available for automation?

    Yes.

    #11875

    Pigini
    Participant

    Don’t mean to spoil your fun Fritz, dabbling in your spare time with synthmaker can surely be interesting, but I very much doubt its usefulness for the marketing of podium.

    I (and many others) regard that synthmakers stuff a thing for hobbyists, it can’t compete with properly programmed plugins, performance -or otherwise and charging for synthmaker-plugins is widely considered a lame thing to do.
    It can backfire and harm your reputation.
    If I was thinking of buying podium right now, seeing the developer playing with synthmaker would give me some serious doubts if podium was such a wise choice afterall.

    For podiums sake I can only hope, you don’t stray too far from the path.
    There is enough to do in the host itself, while the web is flooded with plugins already.

    #11876

    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @pigini wrote:

    I (and many others) regard that synthmakers stuff a thing for hobbyists, it can’t compete with properly programmed plugins, performance -or otherwise and charging for synthmaker-plugins is widely considered a lame thing to do.
    It can backfire and harm your reputation.

    Thanks for your input.

    I am aware of this widespread public opinion about SynthEdit/SynthMaker made plugins. I think this opinion was formed early on with SynthEdit, long before SynthMaker came on the market. With SynthEdit it became possible for almost anyone to create plugins, and so a large number of lousy plugins became available as downloads. I think it was this flood of bad plugins that gave the “Made with SynthEdit” that bad reputation. The few good SynthEdit creations suffered from this. SynthMaker unfortunately inherited that legacy. It’s equally possible to create lousy plugins with SynthMaker, but with regards to editor graphics and audio quality, the tool can produce plugins that matches the best custom made plugins.

    The one downside there is to Synthmaker made plugins, is that the CPU usage is a fair bit higher compared to a properly coded custom plugin. But for the simple synth plugins I have in mind, I think the CPU usage is acceptable. If I were to make the Nucleum plugin programmed from scratch, it would take me 6 months instead of the two weeks using SynthMaker.

    As I mentioned earlier in this topic, the reason I’m doing this is to bundle the plugins with Podium so that total newbie users can start making sound without having to go download various freeware synth plugins.

    I hope you will try the plugin once I have a beta version ready. If you still think it bears the mark of being a hobbyist work, I will consider scrapping the project completely.

    #11877

    kingtubby
    Participant

    Personally, I’ll reserve judgment on Nucleum until I hear it. I do however support the idea that it should look more consistant with the Podium UI if at all possible. Have you tried using the other 2D standard knob that comes with SM? – It’s pretty straight forward to change the colours, line thickness and so on. There is also the animated-strip bitmap knob. I think either of these would go some way to ‘fitting’ the Podium look without too much difficulty.
    FWIW, I like the way Operator integrates into the Ableton Live interface and something along those lines would be more in keeping with the high class Podium UI. But that is clearly beyond the scope of what you’re doing here.

    Mart.

    #11878

    duncanparsons
    Participant

    Looks good Frits!

    Any audio examples ahead of the beta release?

    Oh, and for knob creation, look no further than KnobMan 🙂

    Does most types of knobs very quickly and easily, there are good examples (some even by me!), and if you look at this thread you’ll find various other knob packs from other developers which are great 🙂

    ATB
    DSP

    #11880

    Pigini
    Participant

    … the reason I’m doing this is to bundle the plugins with Podium so that total newbie users can start making sound without having to go download various freeware synth plugins.

    PLUGINS, plural??? Oh dear … 🙁 (That’s going to cost valuable time and might just let you fall behind the competition with podium as a host)

    If bundling plugins with podium is so important why not cooperate with developers of the best freeware plugins and bundle them?
    Like f.e. Claes’ shortcircuit is free now, but he could do with some extra PR for selling his Surge-Synth. http://www.vemberaudio.se

    I believe your synthmakers plugins would be as good as synthmaker allows, but still, synthmaker plugins can’t beat the real ones, therefore can never be considered first rate. Even among the custom coded plugins the differences in terms of performance are huge. It really shows when throwing dense scores with lots of controller data at them.

    I know you mean well with your synthmaker schemes, but reviewers might hold it against you, degrading Podiums overall rating, quickly putting it into the hobbyist-corner because of the “made with synthmaker”-stigma the plugins bear.

    As I mentioned earlier, I can perfectly understand you need to do something different from time to time, and how interesting constructing plugins with synthmaker can be. Still, I fear it could do more damage than good for Podium.

    #11881

    Conquistador
    Participant

    @zynewave wrote:

    One problem with Synthmaker plugins is that the plugins take a relatively long time to initialize when loaded.

    Ok thanks for the detailed response Frits 🙂 but surely that will pose a problem with Synths as well in terms of optimization no?

    Admittedly one would use probably 10 times less synths than FX in a project but the optimization issue with Synthmaker plugs is a concern.

    FWIW I have a copy of Synthmaker (CM) and love the idea but having read your reply to me and Pigini’s posts I am not sure Nucleum is best offered via SynthMaker.

    Some things are simply better if given more time:
    Many of the best plugs took time (in some cases a very long time) to code. Having better quality plugs delivered over a longer stretch of time is IMO far better for Podiums perceived image than more plugs over a shorter time of lesser quality. Especially as many are aware of your TC background.

    You are clearly capable enough:
    The zReverb is an excellent example of your ability to try your hands at your own Zynewave code developed plugs. I rate it as easily as good TC’s Classic Reverb and in terms of tonality / sound /results somewhere between the TC’s Classic Reverb and their Mega Reverb having used all three and compared the plugs sometime ago myself. So you clearly have broad dev. skills.

    zSynth:
    Why not go for a zSynth at some point in future? Yes it might take 6 months but many high quality synths can take at least 12 months (or more)…but are remembered for years afterwards for their quality. I do not mind waiting over a year or more for a good quality fully optimised zSynth. Maybe spending 5 -10% of your dev time on it might work.

    There are many other ways to draw in users *now* Frits, as discussed elsewhere.

    So what happens to demo projects?
    It would be great to address that issue now but I think Rewire, Automapping (which remains the biggest reason why I simply cannot use Podium as much as I would like to) and other core host features are more important.

    I am 99.9 percent certain that while a new user would like to hit play and hear a demo project (as in other hosts), they are far more interested in what they can do with a host themselves with their own plugins for instance… the level of plugin support, VST scanning, playback, general usage, workflow e.t.c are far more important than a demo playing back…(for now at least IMO) when one looks at other areas that Podium can improve on.

    Pigini’s points…

    If bundling plugins with podium is so important why not cooperate with developers of the best freeware plugins and bundle them?
    Like f.e. Claes’ shortcircuit is free now, but he could do with some extra PR for selling his Surge-Synth. http://www.vemberaudio.se

    I agree with this as a short term solution or more likely a long term option if it will take so much time to code a very good quality plug. That crucial dev. time can be fed into more core host features. I cannot see how Nucleum is more important than solving Automapping or adding Rewire for instance.

    Also some sort of Video support would finally address a long term weakness Podium still has compared to Tracktion, FL and Reaper for instance.

    I believe your synthmakers plugins would be as good as synthmaker allows, but still, synthmaker plugins can’t beat the real ones, therefore can never be considered first rate. Even among the custom coded plugins the differences in terms of performance are huge. It really shows when throwing dense scores with lots of controller data at them.

    If that is the case as Pigini said, then I seriously doubt Nucleum is best delivered through SynthMaker. Sorry Frits.

    I know you mean well with your synthmaker schemes, but reviewers might hold it against you, degrading Podiums overall rating, quickly putting it into the hobbyist-corner because of the “made with synthmaker”-stigma the plugins bear.

    Agreed.

    Even if it may not be a certainty, as much as I personally really like the Synthmaker idea it is likely to get a not so favorable comparison with other hosts in that area. Interestingly CM Magazine are however very excited about FL’s Synthmaker version but I have no idea how well the SynthMaker optimisation works there. I still do not think it is worth the risk in Podium however IMO.

    As I mentioned earlier, I can perfectly understand you need to do something different from time to time, and how interesting constructing plugins with synthmaker can be. Still, I fear it could do more damage than good for Podium.

    It’s tough to have to say it especially as it is clearly so much fun for you Frits but I really do agree with Pigini here.

    Going forward…
    As Pigini suggested I am sure there are devs out there who would be very happy to give their free products some more exposure by bundling them with Podium for demo project playback ‘out of the box’.

    #11882

    kyran
    Participant

    Synthmaker has an assembler component, which means you can optimize you dsp algorithms at the lowest level.
    Ofcourse the more you put into low level code the more time it takes to develop.
    The great thing about synthmaker is that you can create a gui really fast. It’ll always link some extra libraries and take a bit longer to load because of the gui, but if you keep the gui closed I’m certain you can get a very good performance out of them.
    The performance of a synth is for 80% in it’s dsp code (and the other 20 in stuff like gui’s), and synthmaker allows you to make just as many optimizations as any other way to develop software.

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