Topic: Saving arrangements

This topic has 34 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 9 months ago by aMUSEd.

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February 13, 2009 at 08:38 #14337

pavouk100
Participant

@H-man wrote:

Change “New Uniquie copy” to “Save Unique Copy”, add the option for timestamp, rename or sticknote and make it available from the arrangement window?

Absolutely agreed, +1, would love to see that too.

February 13, 2009 at 09:37 #14338

aMUSEd
Participant

@H-man wrote:

Sounds to me like this is drifting a little 😕

Isn’t this FR basically as follows:

Change “New Uniquie copy” to “Save Unique Copy”, add the option for timestamp, rename or sticknote and make it available from the arrangement window?

I’d be pretty happy with that.

Well yes instead of “save as” it could be “save unique copy as” and I would be happy. The point is I would like to be able to do it as I go along and cumulatively, not in advance. I don’t really see the problem with this in itself.

February 13, 2009 at 11:29 #14339

Zynewave
Keymaster

@aMUSEd wrote:

@H-man wrote:

Sounds to me like this is drifting a little 😕

Isn’t this FR basically as follows:

Change “New Uniquie copy” to “Save Unique Copy”, add the option for timestamp, rename or sticknote and make it available from the arrangement window?

I’d be pretty happy with that.

Well yes instead of “save as” it could be “save unique copy as” and I would be happy. The point is I would like to be able to do it as I go along and cumulatively, not in advance. I don’t really see the problem with this in itself.

No matter what I call the command, and even if it is included in the editor file menu, the behaviour will still be the same. Any edits you make to the arrangements in the project will be saved when you save the project. It would defeat the purpose of having an all-embracing project file, if your edits to arrangements are not saved unless you use a “save” command in the arrangement editor.

February 13, 2009 at 13:55 #14342

Conquistador
Participant

@aMUSEd wrote:

The point is I would like to be able to do it as I go along and cumulatively, not in advance. I don’t really see the problem with this in itself

Agreed. I understand what you are trying to do and would like the process to be easier as well. I think you made a reference to Tracktion earlier in this thread IIRC and I can see why you started this thread….

@ Frits..

This will IMO make things easier for new users. I think the terminology used in Podium is slightly confusing. Not necessarily for regular users but new users…I think it can be made easier to increase the uptake of Podium for users of other hosts. Being different and unique is something Podium benefits from in *many* ways…after reading this thread I think aMUSEd has raised an interesting point and IMO it would benefit Podium if the way arrangements are presented or named is revised.

Tracktion and Podium.

Ok..Tracktion has Projects like Podium, but they really are folders or holders (Active and Library) and that is it. I am not aware of any save as or save options for Projects in Tracktion.

Projects and arrangements

Podium…has Projects as well of course but they would be equivalent to Tracktions Edits in terms of functionality roughly, but they cross over with the Project concept in Tracktion as well.

Projects in Podium can have multiple Arrangements.

Any active Project in Tracktion can have multiple Edits…

Save process.

Tracktion gives each Edit the following commands for saving…

Podium allows for Projects to be saved or saved as e.t.c but not Arrangements AFAICT.

I think aMUSED wants the kind of options in the image above to appear for Arrangements in Podium.

In a nutshell that is what I think he is asking for and I think it will be easier and more flexible if similar options (or at least an Arrangement save as option) are added to the Arrangements command list.
@Zynewave wrote:

It would defeat the purpose of having an all-embracing project file, if your edits to arrangements are not saved unless you use a “save” command in the arrangement editor.

I don’t think that is the suggestion being made (at least the way I understand it). Project save options are still useful as one may want to save all the changes in all arrangements in a project with a single command.

If a user wants only to save changes to a single arrangement (out of more than one in a project) then only that arrangement is saved.

Of course if you only have one Arrangement in a project then the Arrangement save as option will effectively work as a Project Save as.

I think it would also be a good idea to at least bring up a box that warns a user that “Other arrangements have not been saved in this project would you like to save those changes as well?” if a project is about to be closed and other arrangements with changes (in that project) are yet to be saved.

Thoughts? 🙂

February 13, 2009 at 14:16 #14345

H-man
Participant

Okay, I’m going to have a go at it as well 🙂

– Open a project with one arrangement
– Modify arrangement
– Decide progress worth keeping but only as an idea
– Create unique copy to capture changes then…

Stuck,

Intention is to not save the project to roll back changes to the original arrangement, however this will result in the loss of the new unique copy as well 😕

So save as new project and clean up from each project the arrangement that you do not want to keep in that project.

I understand too that a little know-how will prevent this from happening but I agree that new users may struggle with the workflow.

February 13, 2009 at 14:23 #14346

Zynewave
Keymaster

Tracktion has save commands for edits, because they are contained in separate files. Podium has separate save commands for sound objects because they are contained in separate wave files, but all other objects, including arrangements, are saved in the project file. Originally I was considering ways to embed even the sound files within the project file, but that would create a large redundancy if you use shared loop files in different projects.

It is not possible to save the project file, and yet not save changes to some arrangements in the project. Personally I’m quite happy with not having to worry about saving individual arrangements, and all the related pit falls with lost changes and unintentionally overwritten arrangement files, etc.

February 14, 2009 at 08:14 #14348

Conquistador
Participant

@Zynewave wrote:

It is not possible to save the project file, and yet not save changes to some arrangements in the project.

I don’t understand what you mean here Frits. 😐 I cannot speak for everyone but the way I read aMUSEd comments is that he is not saying he wants to save Arrangements and drop the saving of projects completely or indeed at all, just that he wants to have options to save Arrangements as well or in addition to Projects.

Why did you bring up saving a project or not saving a project? He simply wants to have an Arrangement save as option similar to Trackions Edit’s.

Just trying to understand your comments please.

Personally I’m quite happy with not having to worry about saving individual arrangements, and all the related pit falls with lost changes and unintentionally overwritten arrangement files, etc.

Well that sounds like your personal workflow preference surely Frits. 🙂 If there is a way to ease the passage of users of Tracktion or indeed other hosts to Podium why not entertain and consider the idea? More users is of course the main goal here. If your existing or potential users want something, is it not worth doing even if you personally see no merit in it?

It is human to not agree, no problem there (we all do it) but to not consider something because of a personal workflow preference is very strange as you are surely developing Podium to keep existing customers and draw in potential customers.

Many ideas / FR’s can be more difficult to implement than they appear, but it’s not clear from your comments if that is what you are trying to say. Even if that was the case I still think it is worth serious consideration unless it is just not possible from a dev point of view.

February 14, 2009 at 09:23 #14350

aMUSEd
Participant

Conquistador – thanks for representing my position truly.

Fritz – Tracktion is a good example in terms of workflow but I do understand that the difference is that Tracktion treats edits (I am seeing these as the equivalent of arrangement in terms of level of concept) as separate files and projects as a folder. However there are precedents for being able to save “versions” of a piece of work within a single file format – e.g. Microsoft Word has such a facility – from Word help:

Manually Any time you want to save a “snapshot” of a document in its current state, you can save a version of the document. For example, you might save the version you’ve sent to review, and after you’ve incorporated review changes, save another version.
Automatically You can have Word automatically save a version of your document each time the document is closed. This is useful when you need a record of who made changes and when— for example, in the case of a legal document.

April 14, 2009 at 22:04 #14939

aMUSEd
Participant

Still struggling with this approach to saving iterations. Just had a nice arrangement and saved it as a new project (since there is no “save as” for arrangements) but now I can’t find it – it’s just gone 🙁 The logic of this system eludes me – it all feels so back to front

April 14, 2009 at 22:12 #14940

aMUSEd
Participant

@Zynewave wrote:

Personally I’m quite happy with not having to worry about saving individual arrangements, and all the related pit falls with lost changes and unintentionally overwritten arrangement files, etc.

Seems to me the current system is full of these pitfalls as this is just what has happened to me. I had a default arrangement, changed the plugin loaded and recorded some tracks, then, in order not to overwrite the starting point arrangement I saved it as a new project thinking this would leave the old project intact. However I now try and open the saved new project but it’s lost all my edits and it’s just a copy of the original one.

Also its so confusing that if I save say a copy of “VSTi Project 1” as “VSTi Project 4” it still appears as “VSTi project 1” when I open it in the project menu.

April 15, 2009 at 09:12 #14941

Conquistador
Participant

@aMUSEd wrote:

Also its so confusing that if I save say a copy of “VSTi Project 1” as “VSTi Project 4” it still appears as “VSTi project 1” when I open it in the project menu.

Strange. I don’t think I have come across that problem before. Sounds like a bug. If that is really what is happening then something either by design or bug related is not working as it should.

I wonder if I can reproduce that problem…I’ll have a look.

In general…
Some sort of revision of arrangement saving / management would help. Clips dragged into an arrangement and not being copied into a project folder automatically is something else I would also like to see revised / changed in Podium.

April 15, 2009 at 21:25 #14944

Conquistador
Participant

Ok..I reproduced that problem here easily.

It appears to be a Project Properties name that is not changed after the Save Project As… command is used.

I previously saved an arrangement as F Beat. Then went to “Save Project As…” and saved it as “tester for Fbeat”. Now when I loaded the project back up…you guessed it, “FBeat” showed up in the Recent projects column…and not the name of the project I just saved. :-s

So the Project Properties Name really should be changed automatically when saving using Save Project As… it’s current behaviour now is confusing. By design or bug…really arrangment and project management areas in general IMO do now need a bit more time spent on them. 🙁

April 15, 2009 at 23:09 #14949

Zynewave
Keymaster

@Conquistador wrote:

It appears to be a Project Properties name that is not changed after the Save Project As… command is used.

Correct. The name entered in the project properties dialog is not linked to the file name. That also applies to the name entered in the sound properties dialog. My original thought behind this was that it would make it possible to enter a more specific name for the object, also allowing the use of chars that are illegal in filenames. The option to ignore the object name and just always use the filename has been requested before by acousmod, and it is a FR that is creeping up on my todo list. Improved file management is also on the list, but right now all my attention is on the new automation system.

April 16, 2009 at 11:19 #14952

Conquistador
Participant

@Zynewave wrote:

Correct. The name entered in the project properties dialog is not linked to the file name. That also applies to the name entered in the sound properties dialog. My original thought behind this was that it would make it possible to enter a more specific name for the object, also allowing the use of chars that are illegal in filenames. The option to ignore the object name and just always use the filename has been requested before by acousmod, and it is a FR that is creeping up on my todo list. Improved file management is also on the list, but right now all my attention is on the new automation system.

Cool. Thanks for the clarification Frits. 8)

Yes please carry on with the automation revision for now. I definitely do not want you to get sidetracked from that. Cheers! 🙂

May 2, 2009 at 11:37 #15055

soundquist
Participant

@aMUSEd wrote:

Still struggling with this approach to saving iterations. Just had a nice arrangement and saved it as a new project (since there is no “save as” for arrangements) but now I can’t find it – it’s just gone 🙁 The logic of this system eludes me – it all feels so back to front

As an “not-so-frequent” user of Podium I can relate to this. I have lost the content of a whole project which I saved under a new name, after a re-work. The project is there, there is just no content. I have no idea what I did.

/SQ