cloudspell.
MLSThe question is clear, but the answer? :-k
I’ve chose the DAWs that I think are the direct contenders of Podium, especially in terms of price (under € 75/$ 100).
What do you think?
adimatisThere is at least one other DAW that is a serious contender:
I believe this one is the one! 😉
MLSYou’re right! Severe forgetfulness! #-o
Thanks Adimatis!
alex
sobaka@alex wrote:
not funny …
Reaper – functional, but so uncomfortable, that I want to cry …
Podium – so simple and well done , & a separate element in the world of DAW…
alexYes, Reaper needs a good amount of tweaking (and knowledge) to be really usable and “comfortable”, if you want to put it that way (and that’s what some people like about it and some don’t), but once you’ve done it, you have the weapon in your hands.
Now, I’m really sorry to have to say this, but the real question is: can Podium compete any of those DAWs? I know nothing about DAWs listed in OP – I only mix on Reaper (at home), Pro Tools, Cubase and Nuendo in other studios, and I gotta say that if Reaper didn’t exist I would have to buy PT. Can’t say much about MIDI – I only use it because I have to (to make tunes for one of the sellyourmusiconline.com websites). But that’s just a side job. Audio is my thing and that’s what I do. Anyways, I’ve clicked on one of the links and checked the feature list – most (if not all) of the features we discussed repeatedly are there. If Podium had the basic features it still misses, I’m sure none of those DAWs could touch it, but…..
MLSWith this poll, my intention was to give a starting point for discussion.
I put the DAWs that we never talk about (almost) which, however, as the ratio quality / price is not too bad.
I have not included Reaper on purpose, because it is spoken more in this forum that in its! 
Cubase, Pro Tools, etc … too expensive. I used Cubase for six years and if I had the money to spend, I probably would buy it.
@Alex wrote:
can Podium compete any of those DAWs?
Exactly! This is the crux of the matter. Which must compete with DAWs, of course, all! But which of them can really compete?
The three that are listed are those that Podium should be “aligned” and which it ought to compete. It’s not only a problem of features. To me what was missing (and there still is) to Podium, is the promotion, advertising.
In terms of features, Podium should compete with software, which are also under development: Anvil Studio,n-Track Studio,Traverso DAW, Z-Maestro , etc…
adimatisMy believe is that Podium is actually very competitive, but unfortunatelly it is not quite there yet. But IT COULD be, no doubt, in a very short while, if the attention and focus was on that.
Anyway, there are several features that makes Podium extraordinary. The simplicity in use, along with a very simple and clean GUI, is probably among the highlights of it. Simple things like zoom slider for the mixer, “auto-find” of a track when clicking it in the mixer, render/bounce implementation, easy VST adding and some more are cream!
On the other hand, some other small things like no ability to select and handle multiple tracks at a time, no copying effects between tracks, unpolished implementation of markers and segments, great but incomplete beat slice function and some more makes it a little behind.
These are bigger, but just as well: time-stretch, pitch-correction…
For example, I love that in the audio editor I only have the basic, most needed, most used 8-10 functions when selecting a bit of the wave… And I hate that for adding a simple low-cut in the mixer I cannot copy a simple eq between tracks, but have to insert a new one each time.
All simple, but either a great usage or a great frustration… 😉
From the DAWs mentioned, none comes even close to Podium in ease of use, IMHO, but this is about workflow and getting used to, I suppose.
The great point for Frits, for which I think he is to be very much appreciated, is Podium FREE, the BEST by far!!!
MLS@Adimatis wrote:
The simplicity in use, along with a very simple and clean GUI, is probably among the highlights of it.
…
From the DAWs mentioned, none comes even close to Podium in ease of use.
Yes, I absolutely agree!
Sony Acid has a UI not exactly user-friendly. Mulab even worse! 😯
And all three are not very intuitive for certain operations.
Adimatis, you produce pure electronic music (like the 90’s music, so to speak)? I ask you because time-stretching and pitch-shifting functions are used primarily in that genre.
In an old post I read that you use UVI Workstation. I also use it, I think that with Podium form a winning combination! 😀
adimatisHi MLS,
I do simple recordings, nothing fancy most of the times. I need time-stretching for:
1. matching loops tempo with the song tempo, in the host.
2. adjust little time errors in guitar or vocal takes mainly, by splitting them and align to perfection. The classic alt+drag in other DAWs.
3. create variations in some more elaborate loop or sound creation, from within the DAW multitrack environment.
Pitch correction I imagine is more difficult to implement, but a form of basic correction could be very nice addition for tuning the pitch when needed, within on-two semitones range. Monophonic would be great! 😉
Anyway, I did try UVI before, for tempo matching and stretching. Even though it has the very nice drag feature, whereby the loop should nicely become tempoed to DAW, in Podium Free never really worked for me for some reason. The loop either stays at the original tempo, or it does get to a different tempo, but not in sync at all.
Have you tried UVI for this and worked properly? If so, please let me know how you did it. The last one I tried was UVI 2.0.6. Now I noticed they are at .9.
Still, nothing would beat a proper time-stretching alghoritm in Podium.
Thanks,
Adi
PS. Another great feature that I think is unique to Podium and very useful is “set loop around selection”. That is a nice one indeed!!!
PSS: I installed a fresh copy of UVI 2.0.9. It seemes now the rx2 files at least can be set in sync with Podium. I am not sure of regular wav though.
The TelenatorAs it’s being revealed, there are actually several others in the Podium price range or else having some similar status, either as having a dedicated core group of users, even perhaps a cult-like following with some, or finally having a certain odd lack of features that restricts them from completely doing battle in the big leagues.
I offer Mixbus and Ohm Studio as examples of two newer ones that are still not widely known or used. Expect more every few months until we hit the soon-coming watershed.
I will put this a different way than I normally do in our feature requests lists: Being extremely keen as I am of Podium, I have studied the situation of Podium and then went on to study certain other DAWs I had not used yet and the several others I have, ignoring for the most part consideration of price in my research. My pastime and best stress relief is a continued study in pro recording, physics of sound, and of course in music, My conclusion, having owned a couple of businesses during my daytime working years, is very plainly that Podium could do much better than it does currently for sales, use and overall interest — IF it would start by adding my Short List of Features I have listed and discussed several times and in several places on the forum. Yes, it really is that simple. Further, I would hope to have made available a modest advertising budget. Many companies merely throw their advert dollars up against a wall to see if anything will stick. But there is much one can do to get the word out and get noticed without the need to spend a small fortune.
I was schooled in professional writing at university every bit as much as I was music and recording in the tonmeister program. In fact, I sidelined in English originally because the Music Dept. kept me so stupid busy I had little time to perform live and play my stinking instrument! For example Fridays was 6 hours conducting every week. Insane! The point here I’m trying to get at is that part of that curriculum was Public Relations, the mouthpiece of advertising. In PR, it is often amazing how much one can accomplish if one is willing to work hard, basically become a perfectionist with words, and most important know and be able to write and talk well about the product(s) in question. Although the perfect time to strike regarding Podium was probably a couple years in the past, it certainly hasn’t fallen off a cliff yet or sunk into oblivion. I believe it could make a comeback, and I tend to favour underdogs in the first place.
I want to address sobaka’s remarks about REAPER in closing. That DAW is in some ways just as tweakable and requiring certain customizations as is Podium, something I greatly enjoy in both, although the exact features that can and need to be tweaked are somewhat different in each. However, in the end, and if done with much forethought and knowledge, the results are about the same. As alex was careful to point out, the more knowledgable about DAWs and modern recording you are, the more REAPER will reward you. You get out of that DAW — and Podium to a degree — only what you put into it.If I had either one any more well-oiled and tuned, I suppose they might record and mix for me at this point. But be aware that I have spent numerous hours to get there — and also more time than the average person in the careful selection and grooming of all DAW-related software.
This is a subject and area where many REAPER-ites fail badly. You can see it in the results of some and the resulting forum attitudes of an annoying few. There are some over there that you just cannot help no matter how hard you try. Compared to Podium, there is an even steeper learning curve, particularly at first, and double the manual size, because the features of it go deep and one’s learning there can be almost bottomless or endless. Honestly, I can’t say which of these two I think is better, since both have much-desired and great function. If I were to pick REAPER because of its longer list of features, I immediately have to look back at Podium and see that in some regard it is better for not going overboard on the latest ‘nifty’ features. Sometimes REAPER shoots itself right in the foot for trying to be all things to all blokes. One example: It will ‘go buggy’ at times for up to a month between releases, because the devs sometimes attempt to do too much too quickly and end up having to take one step back! In any case, I really can’t say enough about how I was extremely lucky in choosing and remaining with these two. This is even before we consider the incredible price of each one. I often put in 16-hour work sessions day after day due to the continuing inspiration I receive from either or both.
With DAWs in general and their many sorts of users, I find that too many want everything to be Easy Street. Hey, I like easy, too, doesn’t everybody? But with any of these DAWs, if one isn’t willing to put in the hard work — at least up front — it won’t matter which one they choose or how much the cost. Podium is worth 1000 times Pro Tools if Podium feels like an extension of your right hand or main instrument. The same goes for all of these wonderful plugins of today. A $200 plug isn’t worth 5 cents if one doesn’t know what it does and where best to use it. The proper tools for the proper job, mates!
Nice thread topic. Cheers!
The Telenator
adimatisI think we’re just spoiled with Podium’s easy and intuitive interface. EVERYTHING seems more complicated by comparison. 😉
MLSI’ve used UVI WS 2.0.7 and I had the same problem you mentioned with the flac and rex files. Now I try to use only wav files, but it’s not always possible.
I hope they have solved the problem with the new version.
However, my next “challenge”, it will create a mixed sequence of half an hour with Podium & UVI WS. We’ll see what will come out… 8)
PS: for rex files, you may use Magix Independence, but it is much more complicated.
PSS: Another great feature very useful in Podium is “set punch around selection”. 😀
@Telenator
First of all, I was hoping for your input!
@Telenator wrote:
…Podium could do much better than it does currently for sales, use and overall interest — IF it would start by adding my Short List of Features I have listed and discussed several times and in several places on the forum.
…
In PR, it is often amazing how much one can accomplish if one is willing to work hard, basically become a perfectionist with words, and most important know and be able to write and talk well about the product(s) in question.
It’s on these two aspects that Podium (Zynewave) should focus (and “work”)…
You have Ableton, right? I wondered, if he has a software like that, why he uses Podium and urges new features?
The answer is simple:
@Telenator wrote:
Podium is worth 1000 times Pro Tools if Podium feels like an extension of your right hand or main instrument. The same goes for all of these wonderful plugins of today. A $200 plug isn’t worth 5 cents if one doesn’t know what it does and where best to use it.
In conclusion, I want to point out one thing. My question is not “what other DAW you like and/or use as well as Podium.” I have nothing against Reaper, but I think it’s the answer to this question and not the answer to the question posed in the topic.
BTW, it’s more important the discussion than the poll. 😉
Mixbus is very interesting …
Thanks for your comments!
Cheers, MLS.
The TelenatorSo much I could respond to in your short but content-packed post, MLS.
First, to dispense with and get onto the more urgent. Compare — hmm, doesn’t the mixer on Mixbus look strangely similar to certain other things? A small touch of Motu DP8 but even bigger nod to UAD plugins and others in the $200-plus-each range? Yes, very interesting throughout.
I want to clarify that my discussion of the whole REAPER ‘thing’ and experience is that many many — in fact, even I, did not really understand that DAW and hardy anything they were attempting to do, and also the raving of their dedicated users . . . until I got right in there and tore into it. Truly a revelation, and I actually must thank Zynewave for all of it. It came back when I was struggling with certain features and a situation with Podium — a mere hurdle as I look back. But I almost jumped ship; I had already purchased REAPER at nearly the same time I licensed Podium (I’m one of those ‘backup paranoids’ you’ve probably met), but REAPER sat unused. As I stayed with Podium but brought the other online and up to snuff, I was delighted. Having both of these under one’s belt is a dangerous setup. It is to my mind unsurpassed (and shockingly cheap too)!
Ah, cute, sweet Ableton. My oldest son will use no other. I could convert but won’t. I understand Ableton. It has several advantages, particularly for Dub and loops and segment work. I gladly boast that my son has just mixed for a Grammy-winning artist, using only his LIve 8 and probably only Live’s own plugs — effects and instruments. Some of his own material seems as close to breaking big as we could want. I see how many of the younger composers and musicians can like it so much. But I came to the track-based DAWs like Podium, still licking my wounds from the total crash and burn of yet another (SONY DAW but largely hardware) studio. Trained originally on all tape starting about mid-’70s, it was not easy, but software such as Podium ‘saved me’ from a fate I shudder to think about. I rarely knock Ableton, but it does continue to have its serious problems: Plugin Latency Compensation still isn’t fixed going into Live 9, and it has so many issues with 3rd-party plugins that it’s been nicknamed ‘Disableton’ by the industry, including some of its own users. If you are a DJ, you might better get it, but I can’t recommend it for serious track, standard rock, pop, certainly classical(!) recording and mixing. The price puts it up there with Cubase anyway. Costly.
I have only passing knowledge of UVI stuff, but hear good things. This REX issue is everywhere. REAPER is attempting to deal with, seems to be very slowly getting there. I’ve been avoiding the whole thing, hoping all will have things sorted by the time many of us just can’t put it off any longer. P.S. I try to use only WAV for audio also.
MLSMy posts are short because I’m afraid to write nonsense (probably I’ve already done it!). You know, for me it’s quite difficult to translate into English.
@Telenator wrote:
I see how many of the younger composers and musicians can like it so much.
…
If you are a DJ, you might better get it, but I can’t recommend it for serious track, standard rock, pop, certainly classical(!) recording and mixing.
In fact, Ableton is widely used by DJs (Guetta and others) because they say that is very powerful, especially for live performances (hence the name). However, I think to use it in the studio (for large productions such as songs and not just trigger a sample or an external device), you have to be very good and spend a lot of time to learn to use it.
Young people are very influenced by the fashions of the moment and this is also true for softwares. So if a celebrity uses some software, then they too want the same software.
Here you see, it would take a famous producer who wanted to use Podium to compose a song … 😉
In many forums on programming is recommended to use WAV files in audio applications, because they are simple containers. Even better if they contain uncompressed PCM audio. This is the best format for use in softwares because it requires no special precautions for use. Other formats to be used require conversion to WAV (almost always).
REX files are more complex because they are compressed and also contain information about the beats slices.
I don’t think that a VST plugin as the UVI WS performs the conversion “on the fly.”