Conquistador's Forum Page

a. It is not possible to bounce a 24bit file anyway at the moment in Podium even if I tried to do so without the 64 bit option anyway.

It is possible. All you have to do is go into the sound properties for the sound on the bounce track, and set it to the resolution you want. Anything from 8 to 32 bit fixed point, or 32/64 bit floats. And this applies nomatter if you are using 32 or 64 bit mixing engine. Podium will by default create sounds on bounce tracks with the mixer engine resolution, because anything else will cause a quality degradation in the bounced file.

Correct but the process you outlined above has a single negative which is not addressed by going into the properties panel and changing the resolution. Your suggestion above will give me the 24 bit file I want but not without truncating it first. Which we have already discussed earlier in this thread.

When I said it is not possible to bounce a 24 bit I was right. You said it can be done by going into the sound properties for the file and making changes there. But that is *post* bounce and will truncate the file. See what I mean? That is, *after* the bounce has been done, so in Podium it still is not possible to bounce a file to 24bits without having to change the bounced file, which will either be 64bits or 32bits to start with, based on the mixer engine options that currently exist in Podium.

It can indeed be done, if truncating the file afterwards is not an issue, but after carefully creating a file in the first place it is seems strange to truncate it at any stage of the music process.

Are you saying here that the truncating process does not affect the master output?

Yes. Not during the bounce recording. When you switch to bounce playback, you will hear the truncated sound file.

Useful to know, but even that process cannot produce bounced playback without truncating. Also it does not adress the truncating issues for track level bounces either.

If I should try to explain it on other words; When Podium records on bounce tracks, the output of the mixer engine is extracted to the sound file. If this sound file is using a lower bit resolution, then you loose bit resolution in the sound file, but it does not affect the audio streaming. Of course if you then switch the bounce recording on, to free up the plugin resources recorded to the bounce file, then the lower-resolution bounce file will be playing. This is why bounce tracks by default are set to the mixer engine resolution. I do not want to introduce quality loss in the bounce recording system.

I agree with you here, any sort of degradation or qulaity loss in the bounce recording system is to be avoided for obvious reasons. I appreciate you taking your time with that one.

You have somewhat answered my question about a future 24 bit bounce feature. It is not going to happen as it will interfere with the bounce process in Podium.

It appears the development of the Podium Sequencer involved a process that somehow (read you know better than me here 🙂 ) tied the mixing engine setting to the bounce resolution.

Now other hosts like Tracktion2, Cubase e.t.c are more flexible in this area as their mixing engine settings – 32bit for Cubase and Sonar (but 32 or 64 bit for Tracktion2) allow a user to choose the bounced file resolution based on the bit depth setting.

So choosing a 64 bit or a 32bit mixing environment in other hosts does not mean you have to have 64 or 32 bit bounced files. Are you with me?

Forstår du det? (Thats about as far as my Danish goes…google is great!) 😀 You gotta laugh Frits, tech support can be amusing you know! 🙂

Anyway…the percentage of Podium users, past, present and future that share my interest in being able to bounce a 24 bit file while using a 32bit mixing engine(which is pretty standard across all hosts) or 64 bit mixing engine setting, may amount to no more than 0.00000000000000000001%.

However I have brought this up and have engaged in this discussion so far, because you encourage user involvement as far as software updates are concerned (its on the home page) 8). This approach is extremely rare
nowadays and for me is a massive selling point for Podium.

Instead of simply gathering requests without any consultation with users you ask and listen carefully or read carefully in this instance 🙂 I doubt anyone has heard or can hear an online forum such as this! 😆

I think that is why May was such a big month for registration on this forum. Not sure how many bought the product but interest is clearly growing.

In a nut shell Frits…
You have tied the bounce resolution to the mixing engine so any bounced files can only be 32 or 64 bit. Any attempt to change the file to 24bit will truncate it first.

I want to avoid the large 32bit files *and* the truncation process. It seems Podium can avoid neither of these pitfalls, as I will be doing alot of track level bouncing as well.

The fact that you you have used up so much virtual ink on this discussion shows your commitment to solving problems and listening to suggestions. Full marks there.

I even remember a discussion about busses and how Duncan made some suggestions that you eagerly listened to and implemented ages ago. So I think you have a great track record.

I guess I will just have to see what kind of workarounds there are, if any, to the large file issue and the truncation process for now… If you know any please let me know and no Danish. It took long enough for us to get this far on these issues in English 😆

Tak! 😉

I don’t think you misunderstood me, however when you said…

“Setting the master sound to 24 bit will still do all the mixing in 64 bit, but the bounce recording to the master track is stored in the 24 bit file, and thus is truncated of course”

By “setting the master sound” do you mean changing the properties of a bounced file on the master out? If yes then I understand what you mean.

I must admit I was a bit puzzled by this statement though…

“After you have sent your 24 bit file to the CD-factory (perhaps), you can always change the resolution of the master sound back to 64 bit float, and redo the bounce recording”

I assume CD factory means a mastering house or CD copying facility.As for changing the resolution back to 64 bit why would this be of any benefit? Also why would I then want to redo the bounce?

I think we may have our wires crossed a little 8) .

I am trying to work in Podium using the 64bit mixing engine, which I think is a great feature to use. But I also want to simply bounce my midi files / events to a 24bit file, not a 64bit or 32bit file that must be truncated.

I will be doing my own mastering so once the files are at 24bit I would do my own dithering to 16bits.

I just want to avoid having huge 32 bit files on my hard drive which while not small, with the volume of work I have coming up will not realistically be possible to store all the projects I want to create in Podium.

External storage is one solution but I would rather spare that expense as Podium brings my costs down at the moment not up. So great work on your part there. 😉

I certainly do not want to do any uneccessary bit conversions if they can be avoided and simply want a 24bit bounced file that can be dithered to 16 bits.

I might have been able to use Izotope Ozone http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/ for instance in Podium, but Podium does not have an export function for the output of any tracks or even the master out which is where ozone would sit. So if Podium could bounce a 24bit file I would have to choose save as from the sound editor and get the file out of Podium that way and dither it elsewhere. Which is ok.

Just trying to avoid huge 32 bit files. Or truncated 24bit files. Any plans to implement 24 bit bouncing in Podium in future?

I think dithering is on the plan already If I am not mistaken.

Thanks for the feedback guys. 🙂

Frits…it appears the panner issue is not quite as simple as first appeared to me. You have done well to even implement surround in Podium with support for so many configurations in the first place, looking at the difficulties involved and then offering such features at the current price point 😉

Thanks for the clarity on the scoring and video questions as well.

As for the pan colour? Sorry I meant Play! 😆

On the arrange page click on View > View (on drop down) >Set up > Colours… and fourth from bottom on the left (I am sure you know) is the Play, Bounce and Solo colour options.

Can each of these have their own option please? As they all have to be the same colour at the moment. And additional colour options for the faded state of all the following would be great as well

Play

Bounce

Solo

Record

Mute

By faded state I mean when for instance, you solo a group track the child or sub tracks are also solo enabled but have a faded green colour this is the faded state I am referring to.

Thanks Frits.

Super_Crunchy…

Thanks for the advice. I have seen acousmodules creations and they even feature in SOS MAG this month as well. 🙂

I have not really tried them yet but until Frits creates a surround panner with (no doubt) the same attention detail as everything else in Podium 8) I will probably have to use Acousmodules stuff, they certainly do look very useful and varied. 😉

@francois wrote:

😀 ok, sorry , but do you have the same problem i mentioned about the “dry audio” when using console?

Hi there,

I have not come across this problem before.

@francois wrote:

😀 you can also try CONSOLE Demo and see if it help , i think so

Thanks Francois but I am the same guy who suggested you try it in this thread! 🙂

http://www.zynewave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427

I have used Console for over a year. 😉

A minor issue with Console not recalling a preset name but recalling the preset state can be found here…

http://www.zynewave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2285&highlight=#2285

Not a show stopper at all, but for whatever reason Console or Podium could not recall the preset name if created within Podium.

More detailed explanations can be found within the thread link above. As you appear to have the demo, the discussions in the thread may help you determine if you will buy it or not. It works perfectly well but can’t seem to communicate with Podium…yet anyway. 8)

Ok…your detailed explanations about phantom copies has really helped. Having used other hosts sometimes you expect a simple copy and paste to work just like other hosts.

Some hosts I think give you the option of creating a linked copy of a clip when you try to copy it. My expectation was that Podium was simply copying my cilp and not linking it. As I said earlier I am trying to understand the way Podium operates as well as the different terminolgy used in Podium.

So far so good anyway, and thanks for your efforts. I have decided to simplify this problem and delete any links to the original file and quantize the original again, double check the alignment and crop the sequence ( what specifically does the crop feature do, a type of trimming of the event?) this approach seems to have cleared up the midi timing issue.

I guess if I had only ever used Podium as a sequencer that would have made the learning process much easier for me. 😉

But for that to happen you would have had to leave your job at TC Electronics alot earlier to finish Podium around 2001 / 2002!

Saving arrangement zoom settings is on the plan.

Glad to hear it and looking forward to it.

By the way I was puzzled as to how to save changes to a plug ins exisitng preset. But you simply click on the New button in the preset area and make your changes on the plug in ! This is really well done.

It’s actually quite odd because I tried Podium about 6 – 9 months ago for the first time and gave up because I just could not get a sound out of it!

There was even a thread on KVR with some existing Podium users supporting your cause but many like me really wanted to use it but could not understand how after 30 minutes of trying or longer we could not get a beep out of Podium, really! I will find the thread if you want.

Anyway about 4 months ago or so I read the superb reviews of Podium on KVR and one reviewer actually posted a link to his own self made quickstart. So I thought with all these glowing reviews let me try this again and use his quick start.

I think even that failed because somewhere in the quickstart he forgot to mention that you cannot access a plug in interface without hitting play first or something along those lines so I was well and truly stuck. I simply hit the play button and noticed the E button appear and thought finally!

So here I am today!

Anyway keep it going Frits. 8)

Thanks 🙂

Just got this message…

Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

‘info@zynewave.com‘ on 28/05/2005 15:58
550 must be authenticated

I will try sending it again. Failing that I wll use an alternative email address.