ConquistadorThe “glimpse” of those buttons is enough for me to see it is much better than it is now. Very pleased.
The big transport looks good as well. Nice work.
Conquistador@Zynewave wrote:
When I get a Vista PC to test with. If you say that Podium is working on Vista, I am in no hurry to upgrade my current XP PC.
Working yes but not officially advertised as such. Pretty much every other host has Vista support (advertised). It’s just something that will likely pop up more often on this forum. But by all means focus on your current and other future to do’s in the best way that suits your workflow.
You have done a great job so far. 🙂
In any case it would be misleading to advertise support for it if you are not actually using it yourself. You would of course not be able to troubleshoot Vista related problems. It’s not at the very top of my list anyway.
I haven’t tried contacting them lately. I still have a lot to do before I’ll look at Rewire.
Just a reminder really. Not actually a key feature for me but I would guess there are many Reason, Live and P5 users that would need this feature big time before considering Podium.
Hopefully the Props will not keep you waiting much longer and once other areas have been seen to in your development schedule, perhaps this can be looked into. It is quite low on my personal FR list…
…but likely very high for many potential users of Hosts that can operate as Rewire slaves.
Please if possible, give some consideration to that Group Panel scroll bar idea to solve the two problems I mentioned earlier in this thread. Especially with an increased focus on using the Group Panel for track management in 1.94. Thanks.
1.94 looks like it will really improve track management. Looking forward to it. 😉
Conquistador@Zynewave wrote:
Yes, provided that the track lanes for the 3 fx tracks are hidden (which they are by default if you created the track by dragging an fx mapping).
Sounds good! Look forward to seeing the latest changes. 😉
Any plans to officially support Vista by 2.0? I use Podium on Vista. I cannot tell the difference between XP or Vista usage. Podium is just as reliable in Vista. Everything seems quicker as well. So any idea when you will offer support for Vista officially?
Also (Rewire) are Propellerhead still slilent?
Conquistador@sam c wrote:
the only thing unclear is how much. the sale of Winamp to AOL was in the area of $400,000,000. much of the payment was AOL stock and justins father, an attorney who did much to help Win Amp and sell the comapny, was certainly paid well.
so that rumor mill we talked about has it from $50,000,000 to $200,000,000.
either number makes for lots of financial comfort……….
Er yeah…crazy numbers 😯
oh yeah, the Win Amp deal was send $10 if you like the program…. remember? well, that alone generated hundreds of thousands of dollars for justin. a true piece of trivia is justin did not want to charge for Win Amp or have a donation but his father insisted it would be a good idea. dear ole dad! 🙂
Yes what a nice thing for Dad to suggest. 😆
Thanks Conquistador for the links!
I’m watching some of the users vids. Is there sound to these? If so, how do you get it working?
Thanks again,
Jamie
No sound on either set of videos, IIRC sorry. The more recent ones are still very helpful to grasp the basics IMO. Even without sound. 😉
Conquistador@Zynewave wrote:
I’m working on expanding the group panel. This includes an option to compact the headers in the tracks region so that only groups with track lanes are shown. This will get rid of the thin bars for the chained tracks, which can be visually overwhelming with large chains.
I would need to see this to fully understand what you mean but it sounds like a very good idea already if I understand it correctly.
In effect, the only place where you see fx tracks are in the group panel and in the stacked strips in the mixer.
You might want to have those 1.94 changes set up by default as you described. So maybe have Podium set up so that the Group panel will “compact the headers in the tracks region” by default so that a user will not see additional tracks and as you described likely just manage them in the group panel instead. This makes sense to me.
In addition to that, I suppose a user could then choose to disable the “Expand all tracks” option in the View menu of the mixer, so that the small cross hair appears on tracks. That allows one to minimise any set of tracks (FX in this case) and leave the main track being processed visible in the mixer.
If the FX tracks are really just connectors then we really do not need to see them. Nice for analysis (metering) even I have detailed the advantages of seeing them on speparate tracks elsewhere on the forum but now being able to hide them in the arrange view completely would be great. Defintely my first preference.
It sounds like it might be a case of the Group panel evolving into the original idea for the ZGrid X*Y panel but without parallel processing. Is that correct?
I would also suggest that with more emphasis on the Group panel you incude a slider or scroll bar to it. Many times when I raise the mixer I sometimes have to bring it back down to get back to the group panel if 3 or more plugs are visible inside the Group panel.
Also the group panel without a scroll bar makes it difficult to access other panels beneath it when more than 3 or so plugs are visible in the Group panel. I would really like to use it more but I end up having to close it most times to access other panels.
My aim is to make this just as convenient as having them chained inside a zGrid plugin.
If you can pull this off that would be very impressive. 😉
So although zGrid is still on the plan, I’m trying to take as much of the functionality and integrating it in Podium. This is a better approach imo
.
Maybe…
IIRC the Z Grid initially was not going to support global (multi output) plugins. The Group panel though can be used to manage multi output plugs already.
I think parallel processing is the feature the Z grid would offer outside of the changes you are suggesting…but…
Quick scenario (track counts in the arranger)
If I have one track with for instance Pentagon VSTi on it routed (streaming up) to 3 FX tracks will the changes you are making now result in only one track in the arrange view?
Conquistador@SEAS wrote:
Not to get OT here… but energyXT2? How does it compare with Podium?
Thanks
Jamie
Just posted before seeing your post. 😉
I have not used EXT2 (not finished yet IMO and many others on their forum)…you might want to have a look at this page if you have not already done so…
http://www.energy-xt.com/xt2.php
Again be aware that for many it is not finished. Some aspects of v.1 are not in V2 e.t.c… your call.
so far I like the tutorials (although no sound).
Are there any other videos on Podium?
Not sure which ones you have seen there are too sets IIRC some from Frits (older)
Video presentations (right of page)
http://www.zynewave.com/about.html
…and some from Podianer (more recent)
User Video tutorials
http://www.zynewave.com/wiki/doku.php?id=tutorials:index
one thing i heard was it will change the internet. whatever that means…. and if it is a fair comment…as opposed to the typical gossip that flows so mightely.
Cheers Sam. Typical Justin. 😆
Conquistador@sam c wrote:
i would say Conquistador, you know more about Reaper than 1.0!!
and in doing so you would be spectacularly wrong! 🙂
The information I posted is easy to get from this page
http://reaper.fm/feat-techspecs.php
That is where I got it from. I was simply sccanning it over to see what I cannot find in Podium. Easy to pick out differences that way.
I never bought Reaper and uninstalled the version I had ages ago as the versions were changing too quickly to keep up! It was out of date within days and was not different enough to warrant time spent learning it properly anyway, talk less of replacing any of the software that I used back then.
Also as you may already be aware the KVR news sections will consistently have new Reaper versions pop up with changes listed. It is easy to keep up with changes in not just Reaper but many different products these days. 😉
That is how I track many types of products on KVR. Free and commercial. There are far too many to visit, developer website by develoepr website or even to subscribe to for product news from each developer.
KVR lets anyone track any changes in loads of products from hosts through to FX and instruments e.t.c
and yes, Justin works with Christoph but it is easy to see Justin is the driving force. justin is in fact worth a fortune
Yes that is what I thought I read, cheers. Christophe, yes. As for the Mega bucks I read about…so it is not a rumour. Fat chance of anyone buying him out in future. 😉
but i believe what that gives him most is the comfort of unlimited attention to his projects….of which there are two other major projects he won’t discuss in detail.
Did he give any hint? If it is bigger than Reaper then one of the projects may be running for the American presidency and the other might be an agressive takeover of Cakewalk and Steinberg. 😆 What could he possibly be working on now? Any hints?
anyway, it is fun to read other peoples thoughts on the comaprison. fwiw i like podium better
Same here. I really admire both developers efforts and hope they continue to consistently offer user driven features.
Conquistador@jpleong wrote:
If I can cut down on total numbers of group tracks I have to make, that’d be great. Of course, I suppose the zGrid would help alleviate this problem
This is one of the key reasons why I would like to see the ZGrid in Podium. It would IMO eliminate the problem you described easily. If chaining plugs is what you seek then that would be one of the ZGrid features at least at it’s most basic level. So if Frits keeps that idea then track counts would reduce dramatically in Podium once the ZGrid arrives.
A track with an instrument mapping on it, feeding 3 more tracks each with an FX on them (4 tracks now) would be reduced to 1 track with ZG in Podium. IIRC you would also be able to save that set up and use it in any other Podium project.
So…if you had 4 VSTi’s running in Podium each with 3 FX tracks that would be 16 tracks in total. So now we have 16 tracks in the mixer excluding the master out track.
The zGrid would reduce the 16 track count to just 4 tracks! An immeadiate massive difference.
Of course if you have an even bigger project to manage then of course it is even more of a difference.
Using the example above (one instrument track feeding into 3 FX tracks)
20 tracks will be reduced to 5.
40 tracks will be reduced to 10
e.t.c…
If you use say one instrument and 5 FX …say…one Compressor,EQ, chorus, phaser and a filter for instance (now we have 6 tracks) with the ZG that would be reduced to a single track. Just one track.
Even the mixer would be easier to use not because of a problem with design (of course not, I love it) but we will simply have less tracks to group, hide, scroll, compact and generally manage e.t.c
No need to bounce first, mute, hide or anything similar (as useful as they are now). Many steps we need now would disappear once the ZG arrives.
Not for 2.0. But a compressor is on my todo list for future zPlugs.
Is that the ZMaster multi FX plug?
I’m currently making improvements to the track handling, which will help reduce the clutter from large track chains. With the help of track templates, it will be possible to construct a selection of channel strips with your favorite plugins, and easily recall the strips.
You said “reduce the clutter” but would those changes in some way reduce the track count as well?
Conquistador@sam c wrote:
My computer is a P4 – 3.4 gHz, 2 gig ram, and it cannot handle the verbs. too cpu intensive.
anybody else?
thanks
Hmmm, maybe the CPU requirements are just too high for your system.
I used a dual core system (4GB or ram) when I played around with the CMN3 version. I somehow doubt though that your system is really not capable of running those verbs. But I do suggest you post on their forum as you will surely get a much better answer from them…
ConquistadorI played around with a very early version of Reaper, 1.00 or something ages ago just to see if it could bring something different to my current set up. I was very impressed but it had no stand out feature that would make me buy it at the time.
Just glancing at the Reaper site now to see…
Ok…Podium does not have these Reaper features…not yet anyway. Only frits can confirm if they will or if at leastsome of them will make it into Podium. Depends on user feedback I guess, or if enough potential buyers want them as well…
1. Support for DX FX and DXi
2. Time Stretching
3. Can run from a USB key (Have not tried this with Podium)
4. Full Vista Support (does work but not officially supported)
5. Host and slave Rewire support AFAICT (Bizarre attitude of Propellerheads being highly reluctant to respond AFAICT) Even Justin (Reaper) Frankel offered some advice for Frits on this forum! Look for posts from a certain “deadbeef”
http://www.zynewave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1195&highlight=rewire
6. Flexible FX chains allow unlimited FX per track (Zgrid – ish functionality by the looks of it)
7. Network FX processing
8. ReaRoute (sending/receiving of audio to/from most other ASIO enabled applications ).
9. WDM support
10. CD burning
11. Support for plug-ins that output/process MIDI: Frits can correct me here if I am wrong, but I think this is why Chordspace might not work in Podium…yet.
12. Options for automatically backing up project files to alternate paths, timestamped versions.
13. Vegas and Samplitude EDL text import/export
14. A larger set of bundled FX.
15. Wider support of media formats.
16. Some sort of Video support.
Now as much as I would like to, it is difficult for me to make a similar comparison for Podium sorry Frits 🙂
I just do not use Reaper. So I cannot out right say that Reaper does not have feature x,y or z found in Podium. No doubt there are features but as I do not use Reaper, a Podium *and* Reaper user will have to chime in.
Why does Podium not have those features yet? I hear some of you ask 🙂
My theory…
1.Justin IIRC does not work alone, perhaps this has changed or I read this the wrong way on KVR.
2. Frits has a slower development process. Less new features = Less new bugs (not in every case of course, but I would say in some if not most cases)…Justin delivers more features, (see the list above) compared to Frits but from what I can see also has to fix more bugs.
FWIW I would guess that Reaper is probably as stable as Podium, I cannot recall issues with stability in Reaper posts on KVR.
3. Different Product visions: Justin might have a different vision for Reaper compared to Frits. I get the feeling that Justin is quite prepared to add as many features (not to bloat it IMO) as needed to compete with the more established Sequencers out there. Frankly he has already gone past some of them with certain features already and it looks like only the beginning.
Frits on the other hand appears to be catering for a slightly different target market…
“People looking for a Cubase clone will probably not choose Podium over other of the established sequencers. People wanting to try something new may however be pleasantly surprised by Podium.”
From this thread…
http://www.zynewave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1138
I doubt somehow Justin would say that. (Not saying that Frits should).
Reaper is easily on the same level in most areas compared to Cubase or Sonar. Podium as well in many areas. Only two areas are possibly weaker in Reaper compared to Cubase for example…MIDI, bundled Synths and Notation AFAICT. Although even the midi side of things has been constantly updated so maybe it is not a weakness any more.
Maybe Frits sees Podium differently now…don’t know, but I get the feeling they are not targeting the exact same type of users. Mostly yes, but based on Frits comment some time ago, likely not exactly the same.
4. Finances: If the “Justin is worth £50M /$50M” claim is true then clearly Frits cannot compete with that. No issues with dev costs with Justin AFAICT.
Frits and Justin have IMO done much to provide superb alternatives to the more expensive options. I would add Jules (eh Koolkeys 🙂 ) and Jorgen despite recent difficulties with EXT2 into that roll call.
Podium is different…a slighty slower (not much in it) paced development process but for some, more features delivered quicker are better, for others that is not necessary or desirable.
Frits and Justin both appear to have a very good approach to handling any bugs IMO.
@SEAS: If you have not already done so, giving Podium and Reaper a good deeal of demo time would really help you make your mind up IMO. Whatever you choose it must work and feel right for you. Even the more established Sequencers with a myraid of features do not fit everyone’s workflow. 😉
Conquistador@Reject wrote:
Ok, after some thought and much pondering, I’ve come to the conclusion to give +1 to zGrid as well 🙂 Even though I’m personally very much coping as it is…
🙂
I think I will change the “pattern developing here” comment to “z Grid landslide” 😆
I think it will be very popular outside of the Podium community as well. 😉
Thanks for sharing your thoughts guys! Of course if any one else has 1 or 2 features they would like to see in P2.0 feel free to share them. 😉
Conquistador@Reject wrote:
To me, creating FX-chains works as smoothly as anything else. Or maybe Ive missed something? I am rather new.
Hi Reject…have you read through this thread?
http://www.zynewave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=880
The reasons why the zGrid is in such high demand is detailed there. Even after reading it you may still not want or see a need for it personally but if you want to know why it is of great interest to so many Podium users the reasons are in that thread. 😉
Conquistador@Pigini wrote:
I don’t see why the step from v.1.99 to v.2.00 should be any bigger than others adding just a 0.01 step to the figure.
Frits is using the version numbering the way it is meant to be, unlike some companies showing big shiny version numbers just for marketing reasons while others might just skip releasing the minor steps in order to charge for the major update later on.
If one is to judge the major improvements of v.2.00 one day, it should be compared with v.1.00, not with 1.99, because v.1.00 and v.2.00 are major releases. 1.99 to 2.00 is only a cent in the version system.
As we have seen in the past those cent improvements are sometimes smaller, sometimes bigger, because some feats need to be there before others can be added.
I don’t think it would make much sense, if Frits spared some new feats just to make it fall on the v.2.00 release, instead of working steadily onwards.
I agree it is not necessary but it is most definitely “expected”. The market Podium is in, is surrounded by other similar applications that will surely have at least one major addition to a v.2, or v.3 e.t.c release.
Necessary? No. Expected? Yes.
People will still demo and buy Podium, major v.2 features or not, but without one major feature for v.2 Frits IMO will miss out on a very good marketing opportunity to draw more attention to Podium.
Marketing is simply part of the whole Podium universe. No way around it. Same for just about every product out there.
Any and every opportunity to get Podium in front of as many people as possible (within reason) must surely be explored. Other competing products adopt the same approach with differences here and there.
Tracktion, EXT2, FL, Project 5 v.2.5 e.t.c all fall within or are very close to Podiums price point. It would be strange to not at least have a single major addition to Podium v.2. I would classify the zGrid as pretty major.
Frits himself said…
“Any suggestions for the V2 killer feature?” here..
http://www.zynewave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1211&highlight=wondering
Perhaps he now feels there is no need. Maybe. But as I said earlier all competing products have at least one major feature added to a major version upgrade.
Usually a few at least or even several in some cases. I don’t think it’s about necessity but more about what is expected by Podium’s target market.
I would think Frits might consider 1 or 2 major features. Which should be fine as he does add features on a regular basis. But I would not say enough features are added regularly to totally do away with a key or major v.2 feature. 😉
Conquistador@Klemperer wrote:
1 zGrid as far as I understand and what is said about it here would be LOVELY!
2 whatever the in-the-know-users want:-)). I still think hosts that implemented timestretching did it by buying this stuff that made it into Ableton live, EnergyXT and many more hosts?
With Tracktion 3 and Live 6 yes. I think they both use the same version of the “Elastique” algo.
If that would be true I asked myself why don’t they try to do it for themselves, is it VERY difficult?
I would guess yes.
Especially considering the prices charged for the algos. For devs to buy at that price it is likely not a simple task.
But it appears to be one that Frits is keen to try to do himself to bring his costs down. He might just pull it off. If the zReverb is anything to go by he can handle first time efforts very well indeed. Lets see.
So well, I have no clue here. A hard to do version that would take much time for Frits and would even fall short compared to other hosts would maybe not persuade enough users of the future.
“roll my own” is a quote from Frits so I guess he may also able to “improve his own” creation over time. Likely easier for him than a 3rd party option.
But then a good timestretching would be nice and would attract people (even if I get the impression that sometimes at KVR people really think a host should have it, and around 50% never seem to use it). I like timestretching much for experiments, and for now use, for loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong stretching a freeware called “paulstretch” (makes strange noises, and sometimes choir-like pads who last 1 hour out of a 3′ piece 😀 ). It’s not vst, you just render your settings and put them into Podium as wavs.
I heard of Paul stretch, the z synth guy I think. Maybe Frits should talk to him.
Definately zGrid….please..
I don’t think Frits has mentioned it for a while though, so it’s more in hope than expectation.Mart.
Yep…it’s official there is a pattern developing here 😆
Conquistador@swindus wrote:
1. zGrid
2. Timestretching
Cheers Swindus…
I see a pattern developing here 🙂
Any one else? 😉