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  • in reply to: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories #17416
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @LiquidProj3ct wrote:

    @Zynewave wrote:

    @LiquidProj3ct wrote:

    Frits, why don’t you use a simple second column of check boxes (or another listbox) for mixer tracks instead those comboboxes? You can add too a global checkbox that links arrangement tracks with mixer ones, then when it would be turned on, if you check or uncheck a track (mixer or arrangement) they would be checked or unchecked both. It would be more fun and quick that selecting a different option for each combobox each time you need to make a change.

    Because I feel that will complicate the basic tag usage, when you don’t need the separation between lane/strip. If it should be possible to assign tags to tracks in two different ways (lane/strip), then there really should be two check buttons inside each tag button in the toolbar. Every time you want to assign a tag to a track, you are forced to consider whether you want it both on the lane and strip. I think that is going to be a mess. I’d like to keep the basic usage of tags as simple as possible.

    Ohm, you’re thinking on the new toolbar, and I’m thinking in the tag config windows. I don’t know, I don’t see it too difficult if I have a checkbox turned on by default that links lane and strip visible state each time you change them in the tag config window, while the toolbar minibuttons should act always as link checkbox were on. Maybe I’m missing something 😐

    The toolbar check buttons are shortcuts to the check buttons in the tags dialog. You could say that clicking a toolbar tag check button will toggle both the lane/strip option, but then how should the check button display which of the four states that the tag is currently assigned as? (none, lane, strip, lane+strip).

    in reply to: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories #17414
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @thcilnnahoj wrote:

    @Zynewave wrote:

    Creating new arrangements will no longer put the return tracks in a “bus return” group, but will just create single return tracks on the same group level as the normal tracks.

    Sounds good, as it means more space, but I hope there’ll be some way around assigning new bus tracks to the busses tag by hand.

    If you let Podium create the bus return track (as per your next question), then it should be automatically included in the “busses” tag.

    Another thing I’m going to implement for the busses, is a “Do you want to create a bus return track for the new bus send?” yes/no messagebox which will appear when you add a bus send that does not yet have a return assigned. That gets rid of the manual work you previously had to do when adding extra sends to your arrangement.

    Pardon me if we’re talking different things, but I seem to remember Podium creating both send and return mappings all along, when using the devices menu, as well as selecting ‘new instance’ from the right-click menu?

    I’m talking about bus return tracks, not mappings. Currently when you first time assign a new bus send to a track, you need to manually go create the corresponding bus return track.

    Something that seems to have gone a bit awry in beta 2:
    (As before, the vocal track belongs to a group which isn’t shown in this tag selection)

    Try the new beta3. I’ve made it so that tagged tracks that are part of a hidden/collapsed group, is now always shown. Check if you still get the visual bug as in your screenshot, and then tell me how your track hierarchy is. Note that in beta2 I dropped the implicit display of collapsed parent tracks for tagged child tracks. So, if a tag includes tracks from different groups, the tracks are not displayed with their actual hierarchy relations. It saves the space used for unneeded parent tracks. In beta1, the master track was always shown as collapsed at the top, which was annoying.

    Another idea I had is a ‘tags’ button in the track properties window that opens when you create a new track: It could expand a simplified tag list panel to the side, so you could assign tags right at (multiple ) track creation. the panel should remember its state (shown/hidden) after closing the dialog, to be always there for people when they need it, and others who don’t use track tags won’t have to bother with it. Once your tags are set up, this might be even a little quicker than creating ten new tracks and ticking them one by one.

    Oh, and I think it’d be nice if child tracks of a tagged group track would show greyed-out tick marks in the track tags window, whenever ‘include child tracks…’ is checked. You’d much more easily see where the group you’re tagging ends, and I imagine you can get a little lost once you reach 30+ tracks.

    When I implement multiple track selection, you would just select all the tracks you want tagged, and then click the tag check button to assign the tag to all selected tracks.

    in reply to: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories #17410
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @LiquidProj3ct wrote:

    A combobox with the options: “Filter both track lanes and mixer strips”, “Filter only track lanes”, “Filter only mixer strips”. This would for example allow setting up a tag for audio output only tracks (for multiple output plugins), and have those tracks appear only in the mixer and not as empty track lanes. Likewise, you could have a tag for making MIDI tracks appear as lanes but not as mixer strips.

    Frits, why don’t you use a simple second column of check boxes (or another listbox) for mixer tracks instead those comboboxes? You can add too a global checkbox that links arrangement tracks with mixer ones, then when it would be turned on, if you check or uncheck a track (mixer or arrangement) they would be checked or unchecked both. It would be more fun and quick that selecting a different option for each combobox each time you need to make a change.

    Because I feel that will complicate the basic tag usage, when you don’t need the separation between lane/strip. If it should be possible to assign tags to tracks in two different ways (lane/strip), then there really should be two check buttons inside each tag button in the toolbar. Every time you want to assign a tag to a track, you are forced to consider whether you want it both on the lane and strip. I think that is going to be a mess. I’d like to keep the basic usage of tags as simple as possible.

    in reply to: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories #17408
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    Beta2 is up. The tags are now saved in the pod file. Please backup your projects before saving with this beta.

    I’ve made the mixer respond to tag selection, and also made various fixes and adjustments. I’m aware that there are some issues with selection and adding of new tracks, but so far I’m just trying to figure out how the track filtering feature should behave.

    Creating new arrangements will no longer put the return tracks in a “bus return” group, but will just create single return tracks on the same group level as the normal tracks. The default setup is modified to not have the bus returns docked in the mixer. I’ve done this because I think it simplifies the track layout. With the new “busses” tag it is easy to show/hide bus returns, so having them docked is not necessary I think. I have often also wanted a possibility to hide the docked bus return tracks in the mixer, to get more space for the normal tracks. That is now possible with the “busses” tag.

    Another thing I’m going to implement for the busses, is a “Do you want to create a bus return track for the new bus send?” yes/no messagebox which will appear when you add a bus send that does not yet have a return assigned. That gets rid of the manual work you previously had to do when adding extra sends to your arrangement.

    I’ve also thought about further extensions to the tag properties in the tags dialog, that could be introduced in a future update. These would appear below the “include child tracks…” option in the dialog, and they can be set for each tag:

    A combobox with the options: “Filter both track lanes and mixer strips”, “Filter only track lanes”, “Filter only mixer strips”. This would for example allow setting up a tag for audio output only tracks (for multiple output plugins), and have those tracks appear only in the mixer and not as empty track lanes. Likewise, you could have a tag for making MIDI tracks appear as lanes but not as mixer strips.

    A second combobox with the options: “Add to selection”, “Subtract from selection”, “Combine with existing selection”. The “add to selection” is how the tags behave currently. The other options would be a way to filter out tracks from the currently displayed tagged tracks. You could have a tag called “Hide multi-outs”, which uses the “subtract…” option and is assigned to all tracks that are plugin multi-outputs. If you have a “drums” tag selected to show all your drum tracks, then selecting the “hide multi-outs” tag will hide the drum tracks that are included in the “hide multi-out” tag.

    Maybe those options are taking it a bit too far, and will just cause confusion. Let me know what you think.

    in reply to: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories #17396
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @LiquidProj3ct wrote:

    My only problem with the new track toolbar is that it takes too many useful vertical space in podium. That’s the cause I only work with one profile, because I want to avoid vertical space waste.

    I think the height used by the track toolbar is justified since it is now possible to hide the master and bus return tracks. That leaves more space space for the normal tracks. If you assign tags to your tracks, it is also easier to navigate between sets of tracks, which reduces the need to scroll up or down.

    Maybe you could join transport tool bar and track toolbar, or give the option to add track toolbar controls to transport tool bar, or allow two toolbars in the same row, or create an special “toolbar container” which can hold two or more toolbars, or create a “free toolbar” which can have controls of any avaliable toolbar in Podium.

    The toolbar layout in the default setup is perhaps not the most space efficient layout, but it is made so that new users can easily get an overview of the workspace. Afterwards you can rearrange all the toolbars as you desire, using the profile setup.

    in reply to: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories #17395
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @UncleAge wrote:

    So far so good but…
    @Zynewave wrote:

    Selecting tag buttons in the arrangement editor will show only the tagged tracks in the tracks and mixer regions.

    I see the effect in the tracks region but not in the mixer.

    @Zynewave wrote:

    … In this beta I have not yet made the mixer respond to tag selection.

    in reply to: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories #17392
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @thcilnnahoj wrote:

    However, I want to say that I think “tag” is not perfect either. In my opinion, it works backwards compared to how it works in photo applications, for example, where you take a photo and assign tags (descriptors) to it.
    Here, you create or select the tags first, and then assign tracks to them. This is fine – I just think it’s not the way tags usually work…?

    You don’t have to create the tags first. You can start with no tags, and once you have so many tracks that navigation starts to be a problem, you can create the tags and apply them to tracks. I don’t see how this is backwards compared to the way tags are used in e.g. photo apps. I tried opening the Windows Photo Gallery app, and it appears to me that you can create a set of tags without assigning them to photos.

    in reply to: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories #17391
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    Beta1 is up:

    Changelog so far:

    • Introduced a new track tagging feature. A set of tags can be created for each arrangement using the Track Tags dialog. Tags can be organized into mutually exclusive groups. Tag groups can be used to organize tracks into categories such as: instrument type, microphone placement, performer, and so on. Selecting tag buttons in the arrangement editor will show only the tagged tracks in the tracks and mixer regions. The tag button right-click menu has commands for mute, solo and record arm.

    • Added a new track toolbar to the arrangement editors. The toolbar contains buttons for adding new tracks, global solo, mute, record, and the track tag bar. The toolbar is automatically added to the editors when you load a Podium setup created with an earlier version of Podium.

    • Added buttons for global solo, mute and record arm to the new track toolbar. The buttons will light up when any track is soloed, muted or record armed. Moving the mouse cursor over a button shows a popup with the names of all affected tracks. Clicking the button will reset the mode on all the tracks.

    • Creating a new arrangement will automatically set up tags for master, returns and tracks. The audio tracks are now placed at the bottom of the track list.

    • Made some adjustments to the sizes of some toolbar buttons. Use the “restore default editor profiles” command in the setup menu to get the new default look.

    • Removed the tracks region menu button located below the last track, as it is made redundant by the new track toolbar.

    • Added “Polyphonic Pressure” to the “New MIDI parameter” submenu in the inspector parameter panel.

    Note that track tags are not yet saved to the .pod file. This beta is for those of you who want to try how the tag system works. I’d like your opinion about it. After you’ve tried it, I’m curious if you still think “track filters” is a better description than “track tags”. I abandoned the “filter” description because I thought it could be confused with DSP filter processing, as in EQ plugins or synth filter sections, etc.

    The tag dialog and the tag toolbar are more or less complete. I have some work to do with how the tracks region behave. In this beta I have not yet made the mixer respond to tag selection.

    in reply to: Edit + Big Transport #17390
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @podiumman wrote:

    I’m really into this podium but I can’t understand why there is a an Edit page when you can do all the same things in the Tracks page.

    The only difference between the “Tracks” and “Editor” profiles is the presence of the embedded editor. If you prefer to double-click events to open editor windows, then you don’t need the “Editor” profile. You can delete the profile by right-clicking the “Editor” button, and selecting “Delete editor profile”. If you regret the deletion, you can get it back with the “Restore default editor profiles” command in the setup menu.

    in reply to: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories #17373
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    About the word “category”: I’m thinking that perhaps “tag” is a better (and shorter) word for it. The word “tag” is commonly used as a descriptor for all sorts of objects. For example in the NI Kore preset browser, or as search words for video, audio and picture files.

    What do you prefer: Category or Tag?

    in reply to: Poly AT Midi not recording #17369
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    To record polyphonic pressure, polyphonic MIDI parameters must be present in the ME80 device definition. You can create those manually, or wait until 2.26 is released. I’ve just added a “Polyphonic Pressure” command to the inspector parameter panel “new MIDI parameter” menu. This will automatically create poly pressure parameters for all 128 keys.

    in reply to: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories #17368
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @LiquidProj3ct wrote:

    It seems nice. It’s unlikey I work with groups or global SMR, but I’ll do it with show/hide tracks, and I have some interest here.

    I think its a good idea show some child track without show their group track. When I use Poise in percussion mode I add a group with one input child track and 8 outputs child tracks. I’d like to show only the input child track in track list (because it’s the only one useful!).

    What do happens in the mixer when you hide a track? I think that a good approach here would be two check box column in Track Categories windows, one for Mixer and other for Tracks. When I use Korg M1 LE (two inputs, two outputs) I’d show in track list only the inputs, and the outputs in the mixer.

    1. Is there a way to add multiple tracks at once with the “+” button on the toolbar?

    It would be nice that templates can save multiple tracks too. So with only one click you could add a M1 LE with input tracks visible only in Track list, and output track in the Mixer.

    Hmm, I need to think about that. I fear it will make category setup more cumbersome if you need to set up the track selection separately for the tracks region and the mixer. Maybe this is better handled as an option in the track properties, instead of the category setup. Anyone else think it will be useful to have separate category setup of track lanes and mixer strips?

    And a question, what will happen with ghost notes of a hidden track?

    Ghost note display will work as in previous releases. Category selection will not influence the ghost notes.

    in reply to: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories #17367
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @Malcolm Jacobson wrote:

    I would also like the ability to select multiple tracks.

    I plan to implement that soon after 2.26 is released. I am sticking to working on track management in the following releases, until I think there is not much more that can be improved.

    in reply to: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories #17366
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @thcilnnahoj wrote:

    @Zynewave wrote:

    1. Is there a way to add multiple tracks at once with the “+” button on the toolbar?

    Not currently. Clicking will open the track properties dialog, for naming the new track. If you need an initial number of tracks, isn’t it sufficient that you have the track setting in the “new arrangement” dialog?

    Well… for once, I would take a guess most people don’t know exactly how many tracks it’s going to be in the end. That may be a kind of user error, but it still happens. The situation I sometimes find myself in personally is drum tracks. You can’t specify things like “create 2 group tracks, one with 8, the other with 6 child tracks” in the new arrangement dialog.
    Maybe this is best done with track templates… I do however see multiple track creation as a rather basic function. Either way, that’s my opinion on it.

    Whenever I need a set of new tracks, I create one track, press Ctrl+C and then Ctrl+V for each additional track. As long as the number of required new tracks are below 10, I think this is a faster process than selecting a “Create X new tracks” menu command to show a dialog, inputting the decimal value, and pressing enter. Using copy/paste you also preserve track settings and the effect chain. But I don’t mind adding the menu as there seems to be a demand for it. What should the menu command be called, and where would you want it?

    I also forgot the most important question: How it will work across different editor profiles! I hope, since you say the categories are tied to an arrangement, that the “filter” is going to work independently.

    It’s not stored in the editor profile, so switching between editors will preserve your category selection. Since it is tied to the arrangement, it also means that if you have two editor windows open, one with the tracks and the other with a mixer, then category selection is synced in both windows.

    in reply to: Preview 2.26: Track toolbar & track categories #17364
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @UncleAge wrote:

    1. Would this “filter” also act on the mixer tracks as well?

    Yes, I think so. Perhaps there are situations where you prefer the mixer to always show all tracks, so maybe I’ll make category show/hide optional in the mixer.

    2. Would the category selections be exclusive?

    I ask because I found this to be most useful when working in the mixer section. It was handy while drawing automation in the tracks as well but after the project was compete I had used this feature most during the first part of mixing the tracks.

    I haven’t decided yet whether clicking a category button should automatically deselect other selected categories. You would then use shift+click to select a category without deselecting the others.

    What is the other DAW you refer to?

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