ZynewaveI thought about the pre/post problem for a good while and came up with a different solution. I think I’ve nailed how to handle pre/post faders and meters. Rather than continuing in this support topic, I’ve created a new preview topic in the future forum. Please reply there with comments and suggestions:
Zynewave@Conquistador wrote:
Trim usage is a widespread and standard approach to mixing (which I am sure you know of). It is not in any way a new or somewhat niche idea. It has been around for decades. So it’s not really a case of me wanting it because I think it is something that will only help my workflow but is alien to anyone else 🙂 , but rather having a Trim (input control) and Volume fader (outptut control) *on the same track by default (or optional) is a standard set up for a track in a professional mixing evironment. It’s not a new or radical thing.
Samplitude, Cubase, Sonar e.t.c all have this set up in their mixers.
I’m familiar with the purpose of input trim controls on hardware mixer consoles. I did not realize that you were referring to trim as input gain, as that is not the purpose of the trim control on the FreeG plugin that you often refer to. The hosts you list above are more or less designed to mimic hardware mixers, so I can understand why they implement trim controls. But hardware-emulation is as you know not the focus for Podium.
Podium is exteremely flexible in that you can add gain faders anywhere (maybe still the only host that allows this) but IMO it would help to make it clearer and easier, to mimic (at least in this way) a professional mixer or console by having a Trim function (gain to control input) by default or optionally visible on a track along side the output volume fader.
I see no duplication or problem with two gain controls on a track. They serve different purposes and have done so for many years this way in various hardware and software set ups.
I probably misunderstood you. I thought you suggested adding another “Trim gain” setting to the track properties, which would be a bad idea. Your scenario could be constructed as follows: An audio track with the input assigned and gain enabled, which would be the “Trim” gain. On the last effect track in the effect chain the gain would also be enabled, which then would be the output fader. You can choose to show the mixer strip for both the input track and the last effect track, and then you have your two gain controls, with the added bonus of having meters for both the input as controlled by the trim gain, and the final track output.
Btw. You’ll be happy to learn that today I implemented:
• Meters in the mixer now show peak hold values. This can be enabled with the “show peak hold values” option in the mixer region properties dialog. Clicking the peak hold value box will reset the value. Double-clicking any peak hold value box will reset the value for all mixer strips.
ZynewaveCan you explain why you want a trim control?
To me it seems to be nothing more than an additional gain control. I see no point in having two gain controls on each track. If the issue is with the adjustment of the existing gain value, then that should be solved by a configurable UI, not by adding a second gain control/value.
Zynewave@ronin wrote:
this is also a good idea but I guess there are some problems.
since you can add multiple sends wherever you want (which is an ingenious feature of podium) it would be no good idea to move all sends after the fader with the “post-fader sends” option. in this case you are modifying the signal flow. maybe you’ve wanted to have one post-fader send and one pre-fader send. so which one to use for fader/pan? what should the option do? I have no good idea on that.
the pre/post FX level/pan is simple in that way that you only have to switch between the last fx and the “data track”
Note that these commands will not shuffle the tracks. It’s just shortcuts for moving the “enable gain/pan” options and their associated values from the properties of one track to another track in the chain. So the command for setting the fader before bus sends will simply set the fader on the first effect track before the first bus send track in the chain.
Zynewave@ronin wrote:
After playing around a while I’ve noticed the comparable low performance of Podium. As it turns out it doesn’t use both cores of my system. The “Enable multiprocessing” is greyed out and can’t be enabled with the menu. Setting the switch manually in the config file doesn’t work either.
But: setting the affinity of the podium executable via the task manager to both cores and setting the switch manually works. After reinstalling and testing around it seems like that Podium was not able to detect the dual core correctly. is there something which could prevent Podium from using both cores?
Which Windows version are you running?
If there is only one core enabled when you open the task manager and show process affinity for Podium.exe, then the problem must be in the way that Windows launches Podium. On XP I think there was a setting in the Windows properties for Podium.exe that allowed you to set a desired process affinity. Looking now in Vista I can’t find this option anywhere.
p.s. i’ve noticed something more: I did some testing on another core duo (everything works fine here). after loading 10 instances of a ambience (free reverb) into one track the cpu time meter rises to 60%. just one core is used with 60% (according to the procexp taskmanager). if I load 10 more instances on another track the Podium cpu time meter rises to 80% and suddenly both cores are used with 40%. maybe this was interesting 🙂
Serially chained plugins cannot be multiprocesed. Each plugin must complete its processing before the next plugin in the chain can start its processing. When you have two tracks with identical chains, then plugins from each track can be processed in parallel.
ZynewaveAfter reading a bit, I’ve found that there is a third fader configuration that is widely used, namely post-fader bus sends. This is often preferred because you then maintain the wet/dry ratio of the effect on the bus when you adjust the track gain.
So the new commands I have for the track menu are:
“Set Fader After Effect Chain”
“Set Fader Before Bus Sends”
“Set Fader Before Effect Chain”
Depending on whether there are any bus sends in the chain of course. I’ve tried with descriptive menu texts instead of using the words pre- and post-fader. When reading manuals using the word “pre-fader” I’m often unsure of whether it’s the fader that is pre, or the effects that are pre.
Anyone else have opinions/suggestions for this?
ZynewaveHi ronin,
The lack of an easy pre/post-fader setup have been brought up quite a few times now, so I think I’ll make this my next development task.
As you have found out with the per-track options for gain/pan, tracks can be set up to support not only pre/post faders but also inbetween and multiple faders at different points in the effect chain on a track. What’s missing are simple commands for switching between pre or post fader, as this is probably the only two configurations that most users ever need.
I could add a “Default fader mode” option to the arrangement properties dialog (below the mono panning setting). The choices for this mode will be “Pre effect chain” and “Post effect chain”. When new tracks are created and the first effect is inserted in the chain, then this default mode will determine whether the gain/pan should stay on the lane track (pre) or move up above the inserted effect (post). For tracks that have an effect chain, the properties submenu in the track menu will have either “Move fader pre chain” and “Move fader post chain” commands, so that you quickly can swap the fader mode for each individual track.
Does that sound like a good solution?
How the mixer should display the pre/post logic is another issue.
Zynewave@gwe wrote:
I plugged the first VST to Track 1 (32 in and 16 out). Then on the master I plugged in the other VST (16 in and 5 out).
An observation: Unless all your tracks in the arrangement are feeding 16 channels to the master chain, then it’s probably best to have the 16>5 plugin as the last plugin on the track effect chain.
I also see a 9-out. Not too sure where this came from. Our hardware is a little strange in that on the 32 output channels we only bring out signals on outputs 1 and 2 and then 8 ADAT channels on outputs 9-16. Maybe somehow the first 2 channels were considered stereo and the 8 ADAT mono giving a sum of 9 channels?
The mappings are created based on the channels you have enabled in the interfaces dialog. If you have an “Audio Out [9]” audio output mapping, then you must have had 9 consecutive channels enabled. Check if you have channel 8 or 17 enabled in the interfaces dialog.
ZynewaveBy the way Frits, can you remind me how to make Podium create only one multichannel mapping (instead of a folder full of seperated mappings) when scanning the folder, like when importing a single multichannel plugin ?
I’m not sure I understand you correctly, but if you right-click a mapping of a multi IO global plugin, you can use the menu “New multichannel insert mapping”.
ZynewaveBut now I can’t seem to figure out how to a) start a project without the big crazy time-consuming scan, and then b) import VST plugins as I need them, one by one.
When you start with a new project on the start page, deselect the two “scan and import …” options before pressing the “create project” button. Afterwards you import individual plugins with the “Devices” menu on the project start page.
ZynewaveWhen I delete an audio file which was in an arrangement, the file is well removed from Podium’s list but it is reported as ‘in use’ to Windows until Podium is restarted.
That’s because the sound object/file is still present in the undo history in Podium.
Zynewaveis it possible to timestretch waves?
Time-stretching is not supported yet. It will hopefully be implemented later this year.
ZynewaveZynewaveConfirmed, and fixed for 2.04.
It seems I only tested subfolders with track templates, and never bothered to test it with project templates. 😳
Until 2.04 is released you should not create subfolders in the project template folder.
Thanks.
ZynewavePodium 2.03 is just released. There is a new “roll back” option in the metronome preferences. I don’t call it “count-in” because count-in as seen in other hosts will not move back the play cursor and will only start playback once the count-in is complete. Please let me know if you have suggestions for improving the roll back feature.