Topic: Preview: Compact track layout

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 245 total)
  • #10806
    thcilnnahoj
    Participant

    😯
    I really enjoy this never-sleeping evolutionary process that this application is going through! This particular instance also makes me quite happy – it’s very well thought out, in my opinion.

    I’ve been intrigued by the zGrid too when I first read about it, but… somehow I’d say the concept of relying on a plug-in for every-day things would make this sequencer much less elegant and functional.

    To me it would feel like having to insert Energy XT on every second track in my Cubase project because of its short-comings (I’ve never used Cubase, so take no offense please :wink:).

    Thus I’m happy that the possibilities the zGrid would’ve offered are being re-worked and added to the host itself. Yes, it will take more time and effort, but it will be worth it– it’s important to have this feeling of completeness in a sequencer.

    Also, all this re-working should make it much easier for Podium-newcomers, as, imo, it now comes closer to the traditional mixer-method*. Though only in looks! Underneath the now simpler and uncluttered look the flexible system we all love Podium for is retained (and may become stronger than ever)!
    I guess the last part of that thought is what Frits is mostly aiming for at the moment ❓

    *Excuse my awkward english- what I mean is the ability to place many inserts on one track/channel, which then are usually not directly visible in the arrangement, only the inspector – if there is one.

    Well, I’m looking forward to this! 8)

    #10807
    Conquistador
    Participant

    Yes 😉
    But I suppose that there are other less obvious things for us that have made Frits choose this way.

    Of course there is always that possibility. He sees things from a developers perspective.

    I don’t know if the zGrid plugin would have solved the “muted track automation during record problem” and other difficulties related to the bottom position in the hierarchy of the audio tracks ?

    No idea. Time will tell.

    We have better to wait until there is a beta of the new track system

    Yes being able to actually use it should shed more light on the changes but I do not want to use a beta version of Podium on my current PC.

    I will wait for the stable finished version. Frits’ ability to test his products seems better than some public beta’s. But if he wants to release a beta…I will have to wait for testing to finish before I use it. I cannot risk any problems with my current set up.

    Because it is not part of the branch that is shown in the group panel. I first selected the level track under “Drums Bridge Loop” to make that branch appear in the group panel, and then selected the master track. This is how the group panel has always worked.

    Sorry, just too many changes to visualise. It might be clearer once your changes are tested and ready.

    Going into details about this would be too exhaustive, but rest assured that these changes to the track layout provides a better solution than zGrid, on all accounts. Some examples: My screenshot shows only one plugin in each of the three chains. So placing a zGrid plugin in each chain would not result in fewer tracks. Instead using a zGrid instance would add an additional layer of plugin assignment. First you assign the zGrid instance to the track, and then you assign the desired plugins in the zGrid editor. The concept of a chainer IMO only has benefits for complex serial/parallel routings of multiple plugins. Simple serial chains of plugins are much easier managed with the channel strip templates I mentioned in my previous post. Another major drawback with the zGrid/chainer approach concerns automation. Since zGrid would be a VST plugin, it is not possible to dynamically expose the VST parameters of each configured plugin within zGrid to Podium.

    Then perhaps that is the problem. Why does it have to be a VST? If that is the only way to get various FX to show on the same track in Podium (in the arranger) then a VST it has to be.

    I wish I could suggest some development ideas that other host have used but that is simply beyond my scope of knowledge currently, so if the Z Grid idea is that problematic to implement and as result very low (if at all, anymore) in your list of priorities then there is not much point in discussing it in this thread.

    To automate plugins within a zGrid instance you would need to use the zGrid editor to assign the desired VST fx parameters to a set of generic parameters that zGrid supports. These generic parameters can then be automated in Podium, but the parameter objects would then not have the actual VST parameter names.

    I see your point but other hosts can pull this off without the need for a VST chainer. In any case were going round in circles regarding the zGrid. It does not look like it will happen anytime soon (if at all) so as you probably prefer, lets just put the whole zGrid idea to one side.

    If your GP ideas are indeed better then lets see when it is ready. Once you release a beta (if you still want to do that) I assume those that are interested in the beta will download it, test and provide feedback on this forum, so I will simply keep track of that until it is ready.

    #10808
    Podianer
    Participant

    I volunteer for a beta 😀

    #10809
    swindus
    Participant

    @Podianer wrote:

    I volunteer for a beta 😀

    +1 8)

    #10810
    Conquistador
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    Command types:
    What will be the commands in these menu buttons…exactly, if I may ask?
    What kind of “commands to move tracks and replace an entire chain of effects”?

    This menu shows all groups that are on the same level as “Drums”. Selecting a group will move focus to that group. This is similar to the old popup menu that temporarily was removed in the 1.94 release, due to the inspector redesign. The bottom submenu is a quick way to reorganize the groups, as an alternative to collapsing and dragging the group tracks. Clicking the menu button for the “Drums bridge…” chain below will show a similar menu for the tracks within the drums group.

    This menu will be extended (probably in a later release) with submenus for recalling template tracks. It will be similar to the existing template track submenus, but will allow replacing the entire chain of sends/effects with alternative “channel strip” templates. Eventually I’ll add support for saving these templates to file, instead of storing them locally in the project.

    Sub Menus…
    Ok I can see that clearly now. Thanks. I do think that while the idea is clever and desirable IMO (read nice work here)…too many sub menu’s are not a good idea. I have a much wider idea for Podium Navigation that will massively simplify it IMO, but I need to do a full mock up to properly demonstrate it at some point in future.

    Slider!
    Also you continue to add GP features but no slider. The panels are very difficult to navigate with 5 tracks or more in the GP and the mixer raised even a little.

    But that problem is bigger now because I *really* like the Large transport and just love the way the mixer slides up from behind it and slides back down out of sight, smooth, smooth very smooth design and implentation. Great.

    But…combine the large transport, the GP with 5 tracks or more visible in it and drag the mixer up less than half way and panel access is “locked”. You will not be able to open any of them.

    A simple slider in the GP solves this problem.

    GP Vs Arranger:
    IIRC you said in compact mode one will not be able to drag re order tracks.

    ” The new compact mode offers an option to reduce this space. What you loose is e.g. the ability to freely drag effect tracks horizontally to a specific group level. You’ll need to use the group panel for these kinds of edit actions.”

    I do not think this is a good idea. In Compact mode the arranger is losing a basic yet very important feature. Ease of use in the GP should not equate to a more complicated experience in the arranger.

    You are risking a new user thinking that drag re – ordering is not possible in the arranger…I say this because “Compact Mode” will have to be activated by default to really be effective for new users. This is surely the “mode” they will be initially (by default) be presented with, no?

    Also you are asking a user to always use the GP in compact mode (this I agree with to a point) but that also means he has to switch between the arranger and the GP just to drag re – order tracks.

    The inspector should be a mirror (within reason) of the arranger track level features, not result in the loss of any arrangement features.

    By all means add features into the GP (which I still think is unique in a very good way) but do not remove arranger features. If messing up the hierarchy is your worry (which I can understand) then perhaps another way round this problem can be found.

    Podium in the new ‘easier’ mode will require using two views instead of just the Arranger or GP. That is not easier, that is harder IMO.

    #10811
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    IIRC you said in compact mode one will not be able to drag re order tracks.

    ” The new compact mode offers an option to reduce this space. What you loose is e.g. the ability to freely drag effect tracks horizontally to a specific group level. You’ll need to use the group panel for these kinds of edit actions.”

    You can still reorder tracks by dragging vertically. What I wrote was that dragging HORIZONTALLY will not set the group level.

    #10813
    Conquistador
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    IIRC you said in compact mode one will not be able to drag re order tracks.

    ” The new compact mode offers an option to reduce this space. What you loose is e.g. the ability to freely drag effect tracks horizontally to a specific group level. You’ll need to use the group panel for these kinds of edit actions.”

    You can still reorder tracks by dragging vertically. What I wrote was that dragging HORIZONTALLY will not set the group level.

    Ok sorry! I read that wrong. What about the GP slider?

    #10814
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    What about the GP slider?

    I don’t think adding a slider to the group panel is the optimal solution. If you have so little screen space that you need a slider to scroll the group panel, then hiding the group panel seems a better solution to me. You could set up two arrangement editor profiles, one with the group panel hidden, and then switch between the two profiles using the F8/Shift+F8 shortcuts. You could then also arrange the mixer as you like in one of the profiles.

    I’m curious: What screen resolution are you using?

    #10815
    Conquistador
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    I don’t think adding a slider to the group panel is the optimal solution. If you have so little screen space that you need a slider to scroll the group panel, then hiding the group panel seems a better solution to me.

    But I need to have it (GP) visible all the time and will likely continue to need to especially considering the amount of features already present in the GP, With even more features clearly on their way.

    You could set up two arrangement editor profiles, one with the group panel hidden, and then switch between the two profiles using the F8/Shift+F8 shortcuts.

    You could then also arrange the mixer as you like in one of the profiles.

    As I have stated elsewhere I prefer to avoid using keyboard shortcuts unless they are beneficial or quicker to my workflow.

    A slider that appears once a certain length is reached in the GP (like the mixer already has) will save me having to even think about KB shortcuts or editor profiles. No need for that IMO. The slider is a much simpler solution IMO.

    Of course you are trying to help here, but your suggestion adds additional steps to solve the same problem that the slider solves easily. The slider solution does away with *any* need for user interaction or adding of needless (IMO) steps with shortcuts or editor profiles, which are just not required to solve this problem.

    A user would not need to set anything or keep switching between two profiles, if the slider is there.

    I’m curious: What screen resolution are you using?

    1280 x1024

    And yours?

    #10816
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    1280 x1024

    And yours?

    1600×1200, but I think the majority of users have 1280×1024 resolution displays.

    #10817
    Conquistador
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    1280 x1024

    And yours?

    1600×1200, but I think the majority of users have 1280×1024 resolution displays.

    Gulp! 😯

    That is pretty high. Are you running a 30 inch screen or something? My current 19 inch TFT’s native resolution is 1280 by 1024 so yes I agree, I think most users would be likely operating at 1280 x 1024 or similar. 🙂

    #10818
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    Are you running a 30 inch screen or something?

    It’s a Dell 2007FP (20.1″). I bought it mainly for my development needs. They are getting pretty cheap recently. Especially 1680×1050 widescreen seems to take over as the most popular resolution, judging by the range of new display models that are put on the market.

    #10819
    Conquistador
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    Are you running a 30 inch screen or something?

    It’s a Dell 2007FP (20.1″). I bought it mainly for my development needs. They are getting pretty cheap recently. Especially 1680×1050 widescreen seems to take over as the most popular resolution, judging by the range of new display models that are put on the market.

    Yes widescreens are definitely very popular. I think Widescreen TFT’s double up nicely for viewing DVD movies which is probably the main reason for their popularity I would think. 😉

    #10821
    musicmakeruk
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    …I think the majority of users have 1280×1024 resolution displays.

    I wouldn’t make such bold assumptions. I’m only running @ 1152×864 at a push. I know you said majority, but, still.

    #10822
    Klemperer
    Participant

    I run Podium at home on a not too big screen with 1024*768, and if not at home on a very old 15” laptop with the same 1024*768. Well, that has not much to say, but I’m not sure what the majority here uses.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 245 total)
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