The TelenatorA few random thoughts, and maybe even under 1000 words! . . . .
Without trying to be too obvious, I started the sister thread to this one partly just to review all and a reminder to all of us, not the least of us being Frits. Now, I did notice a few new items pop up as feature requests, some new info, too, and also I wanted to provide an encouraging space for anyone newer to the forum to have a fresh chance to get in on this. I’ve always disliked forums where you have a clique of insiders and then all the rest, who get the impression that their voices don’t carry equal weight somehow. It’s awesome that we don’t have that BS here at Zynewave.
I’m sure Frits knows 99.9% of everything users would like to see added. And now he knows where our heads are at right up to the minute. Very little in our thinking has changed but no matter. I feel it’s very good to restate everything. We’re not going to get the whole enchilada, you know, so it’s good to look over users’ top needs on some regular basis.
I know for a fact it is therapeutic — good to rethink things, good to discuss all once again, see if anything has changed, any new items, ideas, refinements to anyone’s requests . . .
I don’t care who posts the polls, but do remember that if Frits does it that’s time potentially taken away from design and planning. Probably the main reason I’ve offered to edit the Guide this year (besides the fact that it was something I enjoyed as a career) is that I like talented designers to design and not be forced to fiddle with the lessor bits. He’ll have enough with a Win8 write up, as probably none of us will have experience with it by then.
We brought requests together very quickly in the other thread; perhaps we can keep polls together in this one. I wouldn’t mind a poll on every item, even the boring stuff. When I first came to the forum and read to catch up I was finding requests all over the place, tucked in here and there, sometimes not even near the FUTURE sub-forum. Personally, I hope to find time to do a full analysis when it begins to look like things are sufficiently polled and talked to death. All in good time.
[Really enjoying this forum. I’ve taken to stopping by to unwind a little at 4 AM or so after gigs, especially if we had a rough one like last night. I’m beginning to think that pub owner may actually be a special species of slug.]
The TelenatorVelocity modifications, random quantise, breath control, aftertouch — you name it. I’ve been saying everywhere I go that I’ll take any MIDI improvements I can get, especially any aids to realism. I found out rather quickly that this stuff can make all the difference in the world, aside from having a quality instrument. Even a good instrument can sound flat and artificial, a robotic plunking of notes without being able to build in the human element. I’ve managed to put together a modest collection of VSTi’s I really like. Now I need to get a handle on this sort thing.
Thanks for launching the poll. I think this one’s a more interesting subject than Do you want a dither, Yes or No?
The TelenatorGeneral Note: I ought to say at this point that if you have participated in this thread or have been thinking about desired features and intend to post your own Feature Request list soon, you probably have also noticed that we are beginning to elaborate on some of the subjects on our lists and discuss them.
This is all fine and adds insight. Meanwhile, please don’t hesitate to post your list and also say whatever needs to be said. More lists would be great!
I think it was michi who, a couple of days ago, brought up the idea of doing some polling on particular features. I’m all for this as well and believe the time is right. If michi or someone who is good at starting one or more up — either here or in a neighboring thread — would like to do that, I’d say, Go for it! But you can still post a list here at the same time for now.
I suppose just about all of us knew fairly well which features would be brought up here. After all, we didn’t begin this topic here or only yesterday. We’ve had an ongoing discussion of the ‘biggie’ features for a while now. One thing I’ve seen change is that I and many others have clear, more defined notions of what we’d like added to Podium from reading what others have posted on same and time to think about things.
And I want to say, Thanks Everyone! I know I’ve learned more as various facets have been discussed. So keep it coming. Maybe elaborate some on your favorite feature(s). I’m clueless about launching polls on forums but like answering them.
No deadlines at all, really, but maybe after a while when we’ve had our own time with this stuff we can get some feedback from Frits on the most requested handful. Unless a company has specific teams to assign to chosen features, I think it’s pretty unrealistic and pointless to bother with date setting and so on, but somewhere shortly down the road I’d like to hear back from Frits concerning which feature additions he, first of all, agrees with, believes are important to Podium — and its users — and would be willing and able to accomplish and, last, rather than pinning down dates, he might be able to give us an update of priorities and some rough idea of when in the next year or two these might be fit in to the scheme of things.
[Frits — I’m not even remotely suggesting that you jump into this renewed effort to consider new features now or anytime real soon. I don’t believe we users are quite at that point yet. I’d prefer polls at this point maybe, more of our own discussions and some tallying to sum up.]
Finally for now, all users should be aware that the latest word I think we’ve heard from Frits is that the Microsoft Windows 8 tablet PC Podium-compatible build is going to happen. This, as I’m sure you all know, is a real chunk of time and work for Podium to function properly in a teeny weeny place (storage, memory, processing, etc.) It will influence other feature designs for a while. Right? Personally, I think it’s an extremely cool idea even if I never end up using it. OMG — real professional audio software that isn’t heading straight for the iPad/iPhone app bandwagon?!?! I’m hoping and expecting that Windows 8 tablets do real well.
The TelenatorWow . . . you’ve really done it this time. First of all, I think you may have missed your calling. The video illustration you’ve given us is so clear and well done that perhaps you should be in the film and video editing field. In fact, your great illustration makes the process look easier and faster than it often is!
Second, this brings up some additional issues for me: I prefer not to think about this idiosyncrasy of Podium at all, unless I’m actually doing this job at that very moment. Further — and this betrays my age — I’m formerly a tape and scissors guy because that was all we had. And I still have that in my head when I’m putting clips together — which means also, as helpful as Podium is trying to be by automatically creating fades when you shove two segments together, splicing tape together (of course) doesn’t do that, and we relied on our ears to make things turn out right. The only editing tool I completely trust is my ears. The first time I encountered this using Podium I hadn’t read about it yet, but saw right away what it was trying to ‘do for me’. One of my personal quirks is that I don’t like anyone or anything helping me unless I’ve expressly asked for it. So I’m wishing there was a big red Kill Switch in the corner. Splicing is a job I never rush on in the first place, and I’ve always had the knack of splitting tracks without any pops or clicks resulting — I simply zoom in quickly and find a zero crossing or often just a tasty spot that I know will work.
All right, having got my personal issues vented, what can be said about this? This is just the way Podium does it, and I suppose I could build a defense for this method, though it is foreign to my ancient Tonemeister training and the way I’ve seen other DAWs do it. Being a reative cheap skate and usually stubborn enough to do everything the long and hard way, I sometimes think my life is just a series of endless workarounds. Are you saying here that you just want the volume edits to be ‘lockable’, able to be frozen when satisfied — whatever term we want to give it? I’m not sure, but that might not be too hard to implement. I probably waste more time than some from double checking results, because this process still spooks me a bit.
Mickael, just before you, mentioned as #1 on his list merging MIDI, but I have to assume this means throwing two separate tracks together, more of a side by side thing I think. Yet this could also include ‘splicing’ two separate ‘entries’, as they are referred to there. However, MIDI is a completely different animal in that regard. MIDI info is technically quanta, and each little package follows along in more of an analog fashion. If not limited by your editor, you should be able to pull each quantum apart from others and place them together also. I stated in my own list the broader desire to be able someday to do practically anything to a MIDI track and channel that you could do with Audio tracks.
I know I’m getting away from your prime concern but I wanted to briefly tie MIDI into this track editing discussion. With awesome sounding VSTi’s now and a healthy learning curve for MIDI, this is how I am going to add English horn and the coronet to my own Strawberry Fields this year. I’m rather excited. I’ve seen MIDI treated as a sort of second-class citizen all around. My other DAW, Reaper, has its MIDI shortcomings, too; it’s a hot button issue on their forum also.
So, again, would locking in your volume edits to the segments you are bringing together be the fix in your example? I don’t know if I was joking about having a kill switch or not. It is pretty clear, though, from your illustration that the process is a lengthy chore for merely sticking two chunks of audio together. As you know, when we are gluing a handful of short audio parts together then the job gets multiplied for each part included. It can become an assembly line.
This situation you brought up and the one or two other hobgoblins that have concerned me to some degree are nowhere near enough to make me want to look for some non-existent greener pastures and consider bailing. Frits has built in so much stability, customisations, and many features I like that I can’t get too worked up over something like this that concerns me. You know, right here on this thread we’ve got a few requests for more and better scrolling all around, but that worries me a bit ’cause its my biggest problem with Reaper — though for the opposite reason. Reaper tends to be terribly jumpy. It will practically scroll itself if you so much as breathe on it, horizontally, vertically, you name it. That, and it likes to open or close menus, editors, the keyboard, etc., way too easily, whether docked or not. Very limited ability to lock down or freeze things. Jus’ saying.
What you’ve brought up here is an issue for me as well, adimatis. If you slow down that video clip by 3X or so, you’d see about how slow I go at this! Any other thoughts on this process?
The TelenatorI really didn’t think I’d learn as much as I have already from the posts in this thread, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more revelations ahead. I guess I ought to post my FR’s now, but first let me say that the instructions for posting were suggestions at best. If you have to post a list of 10, all fine and good. If you want to stick with just one true love, I see no problem with that, either. To employ a phrase one of my sons seems to use daily: “It’s all good.” There much we can draw from these requests. When I first came to the Zynewave Forum, I had to jump back and forth all through many threads to learn which features were on everyone’s minds. I’m beginning to see a pattern taking shape here, but I’ll put off discussing the various Feature Requests until a few more have had an opportunity to post. I can see plenty to talk about here.
Now, my FR’s — essentially about the same as I’ve posted elsewhere:
#1 – I need a VIRTUAL KEYBOARD very badly; could be just like the one Reaper has or most other DAWs include these days. Almost all have one and it’s a small potatoes build job. I’ll buck up for an affordable controller keyboard eventually, but for quick, convenient work, nothing beats a one-click-and-ready-to-use keys;
#2 – It’s totally time for a good IN-HOUSE DITHERING program. Everybody else has this now also, and you really must use dithering to get to 16-bit, unless you like very unpleasant little noises in your rendered files. Set it and leave it. One less hassle for us all. RDR (sweetboys) runs 71kb, mda Dither is a mere 80kb. That’s nothing in size or complexity yet can offer the 3 most common dither formats in a tiny package;
#3 – TIME STRETCHING. This is yet another feature that is turning up in more and more other systems and is looked upon to a large degree as a hallmark of a top-notch professional system;
#4 – MULTIPLE TRACK EDITING. Yet another feature becoming common among the best systems; Cubase has had this feature for years now;
#5 – MIDI IMPROVEMENTS (of course). I would very much like to see MIDI tracks have basically all the same support and options as the Audio tracks. After all, why not? I’m no EuroTrance dude or anything, but I’m liking MIDI more and more every day — truly inspires me musically. I have now auditioned a million presets and found almost every beautiful instrument and sound I could ever want. Let’s be mindful that other DAWs, like my Reaper, have some real MIDI shortcomings too. MIDI improvements take a fair amount of labour, but some improvements really need to happen sooner than later; I’ll be grateful for any and all that Frits can bring us;
#6 – TEMPO AUTOMATION. Another one pretty common to the best systems. There are the Big Four Automations: you need the ability to automate your track level, your panning, your tempo and your effects (usually meaning the effects LEVEL but a few offer other parameter choices; I’m fine with only level of effects);
#7 – THE INFORMATIONAL MARKERS (not talking about tempo here) could use some improvement. Take exactly what they are now and add a bright 1-pixel staff line straight down from the precise point of change, so we can easily see on any/all tracks exactly where the marked change occurs without needing to put a straight edge to the screen;
Well, that’s the limit of 7 I suggested we adhere to, but I’ll give honourable mention to MP3, flac, acc, cda, maybe ogg file support, the addition of a good scrub tool (another sign of a top pro system), and last but not least improved clipboard for better cut, copy, paste, etc. I can certainly live without these last, but we will be leaving MP3 in the dust before too long and using better lossy, and wouldn’t you like to get your files totally ready (cda file format) for the million CDs you are going to sell? A good scrubbing tool is so helpful when doing very touchy precise editing. And talking about editing, we should be able to handle any MIDI and Audio files just as efficiently as working in MS Word.
Okay, now I see that every one of my requests has been listed by at least two others on this thread I believe. I find this reassuring. Makes me think that I am on the right track and that my requests are very reasonable. Requests are not becoming all bizarre or very far afield. Let’s have some others list their priorities, please. . . .
The TelenatorThe lists and remarks all of you are posting are great. I hope to hear from more users. It really does feel like it’s a good time to review feature requests, if only because the state of the art advances and users’ needs change over time.
Adimatis, regarding your #7, the manual, I told Frits a short time ago that I’d be willing to do a full edit/rewrite (where needed) of the Podium Guide. I worked as an editor in print journalism for years and years, and the guide isn’t some 500-page beast in the first place (nor shall it become one). I’ve already looked it over pretty well — it does need updating but won’t be too much work. I don’t design and I don’t code, so this would be the only material contribution I could offer. I don’t need any cash for it, either, but two or three things need to happen first. I need just a little more time of steady use with Podium (really helps if you understand the text you are handling!), I’m also not in a huge rush because I know he’ll be adding some significant changes fairly soon and don’t want to edit twice in one year, and finally I have to set aside a block of time to do a proper and focused job of it. I’m thinking maybe the dog days of August when I usually take some time off, but if not then it could certainly be finished by mid-Autumn.
He has a particular tone and style of writing and that needs to be maintained along with his terminology. Good editing is always invisible. One benefit will be that once it gets a thorough update it will be infinitely easier to keep it current in the future.
Okay . . . more ideas/features? What are some more of the coolest or most useful features you’ve seen in other DAWs?
The Telenatormichi, adimatis — yeah, these are precisely the features I’m expecting to see listed. I’m going to post mine as well soon enough. Keep ’em coming, folks. And don’t refrain from listing something you want just because it may be on someone else’s list. Commonality is one of the important subjects I’m looking at. By fanciful, I’m really only thinking about some of the truly bizarre requests I’ve seen in places such as the Cockos Forum, but nothing is ridiculous if it serves to make Podium a more complete and professional package.
I’m looking to see where we are largely in agreement on various features, but also keeping an eye out for the unique or new. It ought to be rather interesting to look these over and do a little comparing in a week or two.
Certainly, Frits is at work on some important feature now as always. The whole prep for the Windows 8 tablet situation will require an awful lot of labour in and of itself. What he may be working on today or even next week wasn’t my issue in starting this thread. Currently, I’m most interested in the ideas of the whole lot of you. I’ve looked around and so far have only seen scattered threads with a request here, a request there.
Last for the moment, there is a lot of interest in more MIDI support — but this can mean many different things. What are your priorities within this subject? For this one and any other requests, the more voices the better I think.
The TelenatorHaven’t tried the new beta yet but thanks for the little fixes. And I think even my coffeemaker and electric toothbrush are Unicode now.
Mainly, though, I just wanted to mention that the hidden master track thing was rather interesting.
The TelenatorI’m on a Linux system today that can’t translate the article from Polski to English, but your chart within it says a lot. Note how tiny the percentage of AVID/Pro Tools users has become. It was always well behind, for example, Cubase, but it continues to dwindle. (A lot of Pro Tools’ issues has always been the price and before that hardware requirements.) I think Cubase seems to me a little lower in percentage than I would have guessed, also.
The TelenatorAnd what of REAPER with its serious MIDI support shortcomings, you ask? Someone in the know lists the top 10 explanations offered by what he calls REAPER midiots (lighter MIDI users):
“I can do everything I want with REAPER’s MIDI”
“REAPER’s MIDI is great for me but then again, I’m a Midiot”
“You guys just need to learn how to play better”
“Why not use FL Studio then render and import in REAPER”
“When you buy software, you buy it as is and not for future improvements”
“I’ve recorded 5 albums with REAPER, and I didn’t have a problem”
“REAPER’s price is unbeatable”
“The OP is a troll”
“The 10 steps to getting your FR [Feature Request] implemented are…blah, blah, blah”
“The developers know what’s best so give them time”
The TelenatorNot only is this right on topic, but it’s completely hilarious to boot!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0phA3t9qHNw
If you haven’t heard about what’s going on (or not going on) with Ableton, do have a look and a chuckle.
The TelenatorTo Chris, and others — regarding included features in Podium and features slated for improvement or inclusion later, I try to remain mindful that NO ONE DAW has every feature. Here, I’m not talking about fancy offerings such as SoundCloud uploading abilities. Instead, I mean the nebulous handful of features most experienced users might want to see included in any system they use.
Let me be specific here by discussing a couple of glaring omissions:
Propellerhead (bless ’em, they brought us all ReWire!) in its offering called Reason, is a DAW which has a cultish, almost Apple-ish following, and has what many in the business claim to be the ‘best sequencer’ out there. That’s great — except for one huge problem: to this very day they have offered absolutely no VST support. Very recently they announced (here’s some interesting news) that they will start VST support; however, it comes along with much debate and trouble. Propellerhead has stated that all 3rd-party VST’s will need to be purchased and licensed through them. They intend offerings to be hand-picked by them and relatively limited. Will users have to repurchase VST’s they already own? Or will previously owned software get a one-time ‘free pass’? No word yet, AFAIK. Silence on their part. Further, all VST’s are required to be reformatted to fit within their screen plot and meet certain other requirements — a potentially good thing that is currently causing huge delays in implementing this new plan and causing many devs to decline the offer and others to work overtime fixing the issue. Essentially, what Propellerhead proposes is to make this entirely proprietary, another reminder of Apple. In an age in which the overriding movement is for more cross-compatibility, they are taking a clear step backward.
This brings up a second example, namely former industry leader, the famous Pro Tools. AVID seems to be continuing to move to more compatibility but has a ways to go. Plenty of features in Pro Tools — except it doesn’t ‘play well’ with anyone else. And Pro Tools today is still missing a couple of features.
Other DAWs? Some still offer little or no colourisation to aid users and — related — several offer very little user-customisation. Some are still lacking in abilities to use or convert to some common audio files. Routing capabilities are very limited in a few. Even though some improvements have been made, Cubase remains rigid and limited in its routing, one of the major reasons I bailed from Steinberg.
Of course, I could go on and on, but taken all together the simple fact is that basically ALL of the leading and most popular systems (some of the most expensive, too) have glaring omissions of one feature or the other. And it’s 2012, folks!
Now, I’ve put in my Feature Requests here to my most favourite of DAWs. Just as Chris was pointing out, I can live without full MIDI support yet would welcome it. I can do without a few other things as well, and this issue is personal to each of us, since every user’s needs vary. I have tried not to ask for the moon and tried to remain reasonable in my requests. Also, I have refrained from chronic complaining, nit-picking and any urge to whine. I am not offended that my pet feature is perhaps No.9 on the ‘list’ and not No.1 or 2. I do not write code, but I do believe most of us can tell which features are extremely time-intensive.
In the end, I remain extremely grateful for the wonderful array of features that Zynewave has already given us and am patient. All good things take time — and usually many hours of effort and real skill. I would much rather have update releases that are extremely stable, to which Podium excels. On my other favourite system they are rushing out an update nearly every month now, and it often contains as many new bugs and issues as it does new features. It’s always asking for another 15 minutes to waste installing this month’s new edition.
Which do you prefer: one or a small few devs improving software to which they are intimately connected, or a small army of code hackers in one wing of corporate castle, sitting in cubicles, working mainly to get a paycheque?
The TelenatorLol! Lion, I think shortcurcuit got on the list because I was attempting to explain a tonne of info quickly and that one resides in the same folder now as the others I mentioned. Unfortunately, I can type far faster than I can think when busy. I do want to mention while on the subject that I got horrible results with shortcurcuit 2.x and fell back to shortcurcuit 1.12, which I found much more stable.
Regarding the other issue, I’ve had best results with Phrazor’s last full beta version. Even though it isn’t sold anymore, it’s still available, fully functional, stable and helpful as a workaround. I mention this one again, since some have accidentally installed the limited (trial, I believe) version of Phrazor that, last I knew, was still being linked or carried by some websites. I’ve tested Wusik as well, which I know some folks prefer. It’s a matter of personal preferences and needs.
The TelenatorYes, SPAN was the very first Voxengo I acquired! I’ll have to take a good look at the MultiInspectorFree you mentioned as well. Meanwhile, I’ve been playing with HOFA’s 4U meter, a charming little assortment of items from them.
I’ve decided to stick with 32 (x86 in Windows terminology) for the foreseeable future and just want to conclude by adding that everything I’m doing and using is working fine in that format.
Thanks, Smurf!
The TelenatorThe List, michi, the List (lmao). Where you been, man? I though you went on holiday or something?