Zynewave@LiquidProj3ct wrote:
@Zynewave wrote:
Popular topic 😉 . Let’s get to the bottom of this.
@LiquidProj3ct: Can you please email me your Podium and Reaper project files, so I can test it on my system.My guess is that the improved performance you see on Reaper, is related to the “anticipative FX processing” option in Preferences/Buffering. You get better CPU utilization at the expense of larger latency response to realtime changes in plugin editors etc.
Sent!
However I don’t think that anticipative fx processing be so powerful. Orion can load 6 instances of Gladiator2 and its CPU usage in both cores are about 87% here. Reaper can load 7, due to anticipative.
Best regards
Thanks for the files. I’ve done some experimenting. I’m using the latest Reaper 2.55 instead of the 3.0 beta.
Is there any way you can make Reaper display if a buffer underrun has occurred? I can hear it happening increasingly when reaching 90% and beyond. That is using the “anticipative” option. When using the “synchronous” multiprocessing option I can hear spikes when as low as 55% on the Reaper CPU indicator, and that is with an ASIO buffer size of 1024 (23 ms). Depending on the ASIO buffer size, it sounds mostly like distortion. It can be difficult to hear if a single spike/buffer underrun occurs. A single buffer underrun will make the Podium cpu indicator spike into the red.
My initial tests confirm that the Reaper “anticipative fx processing” plays a major factor in the perceived CPU performance. Basically what it does is render all plugins offline ahead of time by default 200 ms, in a background thread. This evens out any CPU spikes that normally would occur with very short buffers. The downside to this is that any changes you make in the plugin editor will be delayed by 200 ms. If it’s an instrument, then notes you play via the editor keyboard will be delayed by 200 ms. If you “record arm” a track, then the multiprocessing of that track will be disabled. If you record arm all tracks, then all plugin processing will be performed on one CPU core only.
Podiums implementation of multiprocessing corresponds more to the other “synchronous fx multiprocessing” option in Reaper preferences/buffering dialog. This option will always process all plugins in realtime without prerendering. The benefit is that all plugins responds with low latency, no matter if the track is record armed or not. The downside is that there is a slight CPU overhead in the management of the synchronous processing. This overhead will be more noticeable with very short ASIO buffer sizes.
So if you have problems with CPU spikes in Podium, my usual recommendation still applies: Increase the ASIO buffer size.
If I set Reaper to use “synchronous fx multiprocessing” and disable “anticipative”, then I get the same task manager CPU usage using both Reaper and Podium. I also get more or less the same CPU spikes/buffer underruns, with the difference that Podium notifies the user of the spikes in the CPU indicator. That is running 6 instances of Gladiator in both Podium and Reaper, using your test projects.
Zynewave@bfloyd6969 wrote:
Ok, all this cpu talk has got me more curious and please try to answer me this – First let me state that I’m using an AMD Athlon 64 3500 2.20 GHz with Vista. I started a recent project I’m working on with a few midi tracks for now and the cpu meter in Podium is reading between 17 ~ 20%. I open my Task Manager cpu meter and it is reading 45 ~ 50%. This is with the Big Transport screen selected. Now, I switch to the standard Arrangement screen and the cpu in my Task Manager drops to 40% while the Podium cpu is still reading the same as it has been (17 ~ 20%). Now, I switch to the Split Mixer screen and my Task Manager cpu load drops to the same as what Podium shows, 17 ~ 20%. Any ideas about this???? I can’t have 50% cpu load with only a few tracks, and I can’t create arrangments while in the Split Mixer screen… I’m screwed. 😕
The CPU percentage that Podium shows is only for the audio engine. What you see in task manager includes UI processing. Updating the “big transport” display requires extra CPU by the UI thread, so it makes sense that you see an increase in task manager. If there is plenty of free CPU, the UI will use this to update the display smoothly. However the audio engine runs at a higher priority than the UI thread, so if the audio engine uses up more CPU, it will take away time from the UI thread. If the audio engine runs at 80-100% you may notice that the UI update of e.g. the play cursor can become more sluggish.
ZynewavePopular topic 😉 . Let’s get to the bottom of this.
@LiquidProj3ct: Can you please email me your Podium and Reaper project files, so I can test it on my system.
My guess is that the improved performance you see on Reaper, is related to the “anticipative FX processing” option in Preferences/Buffering. You get better CPU utilization at the expense of larger latency response to realtime changes in plugin editors etc.
Zynewave@bfloyd6969 wrote:
That was it. I disabled my anti virus and Podium closed immediately. So what is it in the anti virus that is causing a closing delay in Podium and none of the other apps I have???
I don’t know. I’m using Avast antivirus on Vista, and I don’t have problems with any noticeable delays on any applications.
When you close Podium, does the Podium main window remain open during the entire delay?
Zynewave@bfloyd6969 wrote:
I don’t see anywhere in the VirtuaDrum GUI that gives an option to route the channels. It seems to default at channels 1&2, 3&4, 5&6, etc. for each drum pad/trigger.
I haven’t tried the plugin, but I saw this in the Virtuadrum update notes:
“v1.2 Added stereo- multichannel switch”. That sounds like the solution you are looking for.
Zynewave@adlaius wrote:
The thing is, it makes me crazy to see Podium go down, not up, in price/target audience. There are great inexpensive hosts like Reaper, and there are great high-end hosts like Sequoia. IMO there’s a huge window of opportunity in the middle, where people are stuck mucking around with Cubase and Sonar and Logic (though I heard epic stories of the wonders of Logic before Apple got to it). That is, the high and low end have been completely dominated by a few apps each, while the midrange is full of unsatisfying pseudo-solutions. I can easily envision a more featureful version of Podium just being a shoe-in for that application space.
As more features are added to Podium over the coming years, I plan to periodically raise the purchase price of a license. Maybe something like +$10 per year.
Zynewave@adlaius wrote:
Hmm. Would you recommend disabling hyperthreading?
Not on the BIOS/OS level. But try to disable the “plugin multiprocessing” option in Podium preferences, and see how this affects performance.
ZynewaveWith regards to performance, it would be best if you can configure the plugin to output all sounds on 1+2. That will avoid the processing required by the host if it were to mix down all the multiple outputs into one stereo stream.
ZynewaveAre you using hyperthreading with your P4? If so, try disabling the “plugin multiprocessing” option in preferences, and see if that makes a difference.
It could also be worth a try to switch off the “background services” option and check if this affects performance. I’ve also read conflicting recommendations regarding this option. I believe that if you use plugin multiprocessing in Podium, it is best NOT to put priority on background services.
ZynewaveUnicode and localization is on my radar, but I think I have my FR calendar full for this year before I will look into this.
Zynewave@bfloyd6969 wrote:
Hi Fritz, I tried the tasks you mentioned and the delay is still there. I also tried as others mentioned by checking my anti-virus and all is good there. I don’t know why I’m getting this. Could this be from being in demo mode? Should I try a re-install due to a possible bad .ini?
This should not be an issue of the demo version, and it should not be necessary to do a reinstall.
As suggested in the posts above, please try to temporarily disable your virus/spyware tools, and check if this affects the delay when opening and closing Podium.
Zynewave@bfloyd6969 wrote:
Lastly – it appears that the demo version is letting me save my projects. I thought that saving is disabled in the demo but now I don’t know for sure. The projects show up in the directory but I can’t re-open them. Do the demo restrictions let you save but just not re-open them until the liscence is installed?
Saving and loading is not restricted in the demo. The only limitations of the demo are listed in the demo messagebox that appears when you start up the Podium demo.
Can you give more details on why you can’t “re-open” your saved projects?
Zynewave@MelodyMan wrote:
How can you change soundcard/drivers within an arrangement? It seems that if i change “midi/audio interfaces” the in- and outputs within the arrangement do not change. How can i do that?
I assume you want to select another ASIO driver in the interfaces dialog, and use that instead with your existing project. That will work, except that the channel names of the new driver will not be updated in your audio input/output mappings. But you should still be able to play the arrangement using the new ASIO driver.
If you want the audio mapping names to match the new driver, then you should create a new project using the new ASIO driver, save that as a template, open your old project, and then use the “project templates/load device setup” submenu to replace your device setup with the template you saved.
ZynewaveThe scan/import should have created an alternative insert mapping for your multi-out instrument. If not, then you can create one by right-clicking the multi-out mapping on the start page device list, and select “new insert mapping”.
You can then assign this insert mapping on any number of tracks to create multiple instances. The insert mapping will only route output channels 1+2, so depending on your drum instrument, you may need to configure the output channel numbers in the plugin editor.
Zynewave@adlaius wrote:
But I’m stuck with older hardware, and Podium is too slow (I’m speaking primarily of the audio engine, not the UI).
I’ve spent a lot of time optimizing the audio engine over the years, to the extent that I feel any further attempts on optimization will yield only minor improvements. Do you find the performance inferior compared to other DAW apps? If so, then how did you make the comparison?