Zynewave@swindus wrote:
@ronin wrote:
I guess swindus is talking about the fader handler. say we have an empty track and we add one effect. the small box-switch appears and we can switch between pre/post. the fader handler should now update its position accordingly to the signal path position. example: set pre fader to -10db and post to 0db. if you switch between pre/post the fader(/pan?) doesn’t update.
Yes, this is what i mean. Just unhide all tracks of a chain in the mixer and move a fader. All faders of all tracks in a chain are linked.
I think this must be a misunderstanding. There is only one fader on the track. Moving the fader position moves the fader (i.e. gain and pan settings) from one track to another track in the chain. There aren’t separate settings for gain and pan on each effect track. Please explain why you would want it to behave differently.
Zynewave@swindus wrote:
Clicking the little boxes (the left one) for the fader in the new miniature chain view on a mixer strip does not change the fader position when selecting another track in the chain.
I don’t get that here. Please provide more details.
Is it possible to change the font in of the peak hold value to a smaller one?
Conquistador wanted a big font, so to keep both of you happy I could extend the existing checkbox option into a combobox with three choices: none, small font, large font. I’ll wait and hear if there are other opinions on the peak hold boxes. Do you want the smaller font to save some space, or just to match the text size of the dB labels next to the meters?
ZynewaveI still need to fix some bugs, and do thorough testing before the 2.04 release is ready. It may be a few more days. For those that are eager to try the new features, the 2.04 beta1 is now available in the VIP lounge.
Here are the changes so far:
• The mixer can now show K-System style RMS meters. The arrangement properties dialog has two new settings that control the RMS meter behaviour: “RMS meter scale” has options for K-12, K-14 or K-20. “RMS meter window” defines the response of the RMS meters.
• Each track can be configured to show peak and/or RMS meter. Clicking the meter on any mixer strip will toggle RMS on/off. The meter options can also be set with the new “Meter” submenu, or with the “Peak meter” and “RMS meter” options in the track properties dialog.
• Setting up pre/post faders and meters is now easily done with new shortcuts. The track menu has two new submenus: “Meter” and “Fader”. These menus shows all effect tracks in the chain, allowing to set the fader or meter at any effect in the chain. The submenus also has commands for enabling gain, pan, peak meter and RMS meter for each track.
• The effect chain of each track is displayed as a miniature at the bottom of the mixer strip. The miniature consists of a grid of blocks, where each row represents an effect track, the first column represents fader position and the second column represents meter position. A fully drawn block indicates where the fader and meter is currently positioned (pre, post or inbetween). Bus sends are illustrated by framed blocks instead of filled blocks. Clicking the blocks in the miniature will set fader and meter positions.
• The mixer meters now show peak hold values. This feature can be configured with the “show peak hold values” option in the mixer region properties dialog. Clicking the peak hold value box will reset the value. Double-clicking any peak hold value box will reset the value for all mixer strips.
• Fix: Creating subfolders in the project template folder would mess up the Project menu.
Note that in this beta the pod file format does not yet save the new track and arrangement settings. So if you save your project file, it will open in older Podium versions.
If you try this beta, I’ll be happy to hear your opinion and any suggestions for improvements.
Zynewave@Conquistador wrote:
@Zynewave wrote:
Peak hold values under the meters.
Sorry I forgot to ask Frits…could you also possibly allow the values under the meters to also show RMS values?
The coming release most likely will not have this option. But we can discuss further meter options, once you’ve tried 2.04.
Zynewave@sam c wrote:
Frits, i have been gone awhile, this is great to come back and see!
Any idea when it will be released?
Welcome back. I hope to have a release ready in the coming weekend.
ZynewaveThanks for the positive replies. I’ll carry on with this miniature idea then 🙂
@Conquistador wrote:
1.I really see no need for key commands here. I would simply click on the Pre Post Mixer Grid. I would not even think about simply clicking on it.
I have already changed this behaviour. The blocks in the miniature are now a bit larger and can be clicked directly to set the fader/meter position. Right-clicking the left column opens the fader menu, and right-clicking the right column opens the meter menu. The miniature is now aligned to the right side of the strip (like the SMR buttons). There need to be some space between the miniature and the meters because this space is used to write RMS scale indications if RMS meter is enabled.
2.Why use shift-clicking here? A user should be able to access both menus (Fader or Meter) the same way. As per your original right click idea for these commands. Your first image in this thread illustrates my point perfectly. That idea is absolutely fine IMO, you got it right the first time (Fader and Meter commands accessible by right clicking, with no shift click). Why complicate it by adding another step that is not needed with a shift-right-click combo to access the Meter Menu?
The Fader and Meter submenus are still available in the track menu. Right-clicking the miniature is just a shortcut for showing only the Fader and Meter menu commands.
Zynewave@Conquistador wrote:
So a separate Pre Post button for Metering (simple one really as it gives you Pre / Post Effect Chain readings) and a separate Fader Pre Post button that would switch the fader controls in a Mixer strip to Pre FX chain or Post FX chain. So these buttons for Meter (Pre Post) and another for Fader (Pre Post) would essentially be simplified versions of your Fader and Meter right click commands.
Some sort of Pop up on the buttons would help to explain I think.
Did I understand your post correctly? 🙂
I think we’re on the same page now 🙂
I thought about a button/indicator that shows fader and meter status, and came up with the following:
There is a miniature chain image at the bottom right of each strip. Each row in the miniature represents an effect track. The first column of blocks represents fader position, and the second column meter position. A fully drawn block indicates that this is the track that the fader/meter is assigned to. The middle selected track in the screenshot shows that the fader is pre-effects, and the meter is post-effects.
The miniature could be clicked using shift/alt/control key combinations to quickly set pre/post of fader and meter. Right-clicking the minature will open only the fader menu, and shift-right-clicking will open only the meter menu.
Tell me if I’m taking this too far 😉
Zynewave@Conquistador wrote:
@Zynewave wrote:
The “Meter” menu sets the track that is shown on the meter. The “Fader” menu sets the track that is gain/pan controlled. So the gain/pan and meter may be set to different tracks. Is this too much flexibility?
Hmmmm now that you have brought it up that way…it really might be too much for now. 😐 I don’t know why a user would need to see a track but not want to control the track Panning and Gain. It seems strange to almost downgrade an option but I just cannot see why a separate mixer strip / track command would be needed for Pan and Gain.
Tell me if we agree that: There need to be a way to set the fader (gain/pan control) post or pre effects. Furthermore, if I understood you correctly, you mentioned in a previous post that you would like to switch the meter to show pre/post effect chain to check the input/output levels of processing. That meter pre/post switch should not affect the fader pre/post positioning, because that could otherwise affect the sound (if e.g. a compressor or other dynamics effect is included in the chain). How do you suggest a single pre/post switch can control both fader pre/post processing and meter pre/post display?
Zynewave@Conquistador wrote:
Ok…so the Fader command would effectively let a user hot swap the visible track meter for *any* track in the chain judging by your description?
The “Meter” menu sets the track that is shown on the meter. The “Fader” menu sets the track that is gain/pan controlled. So the gain/pan and meter may be set to different tracks. Is this too much flexibility?
But if a user wants to see their EQ, Compressor and Instrument track meters all at once in the mixer, how can this still be done if you remove the “Hide Mixer strip” command?
It can’t be done. I was just considering that it would be overkill to view multiple meters simultaneously at different positions in an effect chain, and that the new shortcut for selecting a meter track would be sufficient. But I’ll let the hide option stay for now.
But…keep that functionality as it is clever and very flexible but why not allow a user to also simply click on a Post button to quickly check Post FX chain readings?
In your post you mention a pre/post button sometimes in relation to faders and sometimes for meters, so please tell me: What should this pre/post switch button control? Is it the fader, the meter, or both? Or should there be separate buttons for fader pre/post and meter pre/post?
ZynewaveZynewave@bladerunner wrote:
i have made 15 patches so far. how do i upload them? i looked at the wiki but couldn’t see an edit button as per instructions
I’ve added a line to the instructions on the wiki page, which I suspect explains why you can’t edit the page:
“Click the Login button at the top left corner and type your forum username and password.”
ZynewaveZynewave@ronin wrote:
is there a default switch for pre/post? It would be nice to define this as an arrangement parameter. (like compact/extended headers).
Not yet.
I think the “hide” option is still usable but I have to take a closer look on 2.04 to give a comment 🙂
I’ll leave the hide option in 2.04. Then we can discuss later on if this option still is useful or if it should be removed.
Zynewave@Conquistador wrote:
In the image you have peak readings for the Master out -2.09 and -2.21 is that a left / right Peak reading (looks like it) or is the reading on the left for the K meter?
That is left/right.
What about K-20 and K-12? Bob Katz suggests K-20, K-14 and and K-12 all have their uses with each serving a specific purpose…
As I wrote: “RMS scale will be selectable in the Arrangement properties dialog.” So that’s where you select between the different K types.
What commands are on the Fader Menu?
Like the Meter menu, it lists all tracks in the chain, and instead of the meter options it has “Enable Gain Control” and “Enable Pan Control”.
The mixer strip has previously always shown the fader and meter for the track represented by the strip. With the new changes the strip now shows the fader and meter of the first track upwards in the chain that has the fader and meter options enabled. That’s similar to how the faders on the track lane headers work.
Not sure what you mean here…
Typical chain
^ EQ
^ Compressor
^ InstrumentAre you saying the default Mixer view will now show the EQ (in this example) and not the instrument strip in the mixer?
No. The strip will (as always) show the bottom track in the chain, but the gain fader, pan dial and the meter shown on the strip may control a track further up the chain, as selected in the Fader and Meter menus. Thus you don’t need to unhide the strip for the controlled effect track in order to be able to adjust its gain and view its meters.
Also how will a user be able to tell what track is Pre or Post in Podium? It would be far too much to expect any user to ‘remember’ his track settings for every track especially in Podium as tracks are extremely flexible.|
So far I have not added buttons/indicators on the strips that illustrate pre/post status. The right-click track menu will show you the names of the tracks that are selected for the fader and meter. Such as the “Meter (Analog 1+2)” shown in the screenshot. Is it really necessary to show pre/post information directly on the mixer strips? Can you describe a scenario where you would want to toggle pre/post back and forth during mixing?
Zynewave@UncleAge wrote:
Is zGrid still on the table for development?
zGrid never got past the idea stage. It’s still on the table for a future project, but that is far away. The idea for zGrid came about because of the (back then) tedious way that serially chained effects were handled in Podium. Since then I have made several improvements to the Podium UI that has provided a better and integrated way of doing things that zGrid was supposed to be the answer to. These enhancements includes the compact track mode and track templates.
Will it help me achieve the goal above?
It would, but a parallel processing as you describe can also be set up in Podium using busses. It requires that you dedicate a bus instance for this purpose. Create an audio track with your vocal wave files, assign the bus send, enable gain on the bus send track and turn the gain to off (unless you want some dry signal going through to the mix). Now set up any number of additional tracks with the bus return as source, and assign separate effects to each track.
Have you changed your mind about providing functionality for multi-out Vsti’s?
If you mean allowing multi-out VSTis inside a zGrid instance, then the answer is no.