Topic: disastrous CPU performance

This topic contains 61 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  Kostrowitzky 8 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 62 total)
  • #21465

    Kostrowitzky
    Participant

    in fact, i never had any problems using other hosts
    (i’m the 1,6 ghz guy)

    in podium i can’t even use
    ONE single instance of the monopoly plugin

    again, no issue with other workstations
    :-k

    #21467

    The Telenator
    Participant

    Yes, that occurred to me again later. And it makes me recall the several serious issues I had with Cubase before I quit them and went to Podium and REAPER. Cubase is listed as only a bit above medium in cunsumption, too. Cubase was I think trying to kill me. Then I went to these two and it’s been smooth sailing. Go figure. . . .

    Let me restate what both kim and I said before — Podium is really just an average consumer of CPU. Some of Ableton and ProTool’s stuff is rated heavier. There have been a couple of good tests done.

    I will say one thing, though, in REAPER’s defense. They really are great at keeping the CPUs low with loaded VST and VSTi’s. No joke. REAPER is very efficient. I love REAPER, too, but I’m mindful that they have a few issues currently going on of their own right now, but not as important I think as what you are experiencing.

    Now, if I could just pull out a few of their better features and combine them with Podium. The two work great together via ReWire or REAPER as slave. That’s the current setup.

    Curious . . . do you have your sample rate and bit rates and everything all on the highest settings?

    I hate to close with this, but that 1.6 is still below the safe mark. Is your chip soldered in or could you upgrade to something a little better that would fit your sockets? There are some really good deals on chips lately. I’ve been thinking of doing this — can’t afford a more powerful laptop anytime soon.

    #21471

    Kostrowitzky
    Participant

    sample rate is always 44.1
    i tried any buffer size, but… 🙁

    hm, maybe its a soundcard related problem
    i always thought podium eats a bit more
    but i guess i didn’t have these extreme problems before

    yes, maybe i have to upgrade

    anyway, spent some money for gear
    and i’ll need a better interface for recording
    maybe this will help

    #21472

    The Telenator
    Participant

    The soundcard is a potentially huge issue and one we haven’t discussed till now. On practically all laptops and most desktops — even very good ones — it is normally the last consideration of PC manufacturers. The drag with laptops is that they are almost alway integrated deeply right into all the rest of the circuits; you can’t pull ’em out like on a desktop build.

    Using some Digitech gear with one of their ASIOs, it would lock up my soundcard, freeze my screen, and any DAW I was using would refuse to exit, unless I manually changed to ASIO4ALL or DirectSound or anything else besides WASAPI before closing. It was a horrorshow. My card is barely good enough to get the job done, and it’s usually my main consideration any time I operate. I have to baby it.

    ANY interface that’s new that you end up using will be an improvement and probably less strain on your system. I ought to get something; some are very affordable — for around $100 bucks you can find several now that are very good. The cheaper Behringers are probably the lowest you should go (some don’t like them yet they do perform okay). The M-Audio offerings are all pretty fine. I’d avoid any used units a year or more old, because interfaces were in a big state of flux until recently.

    Now that you mention it, and looking back on all the troubles I’ve had, too, I’m starting to wonder if it is not soundcard/interface/ASIO issues that is the most likely culpret. All these non-start and shutdown problems sound an awful lot like what frozen soundcards will do. It’s often the weak link. You can have an okay PC, great DAW and plugs, good settings and know what you’re doing — just as you guys report — but soundcard/interface troubles can kill the whole deal dead.

    REAPER is king, even compared to the top guns of the DAW world (although the rich kids look down their noses at it), when it comes to handling plugs efficiently, but by no means is Podium horrible. I rate Podium a little heavier than the average in consumption; safe enough that I and most average users can get by okay with it.

    Finally, some DAWs DO react worse than others to soundcard/interface issues. The Cubase seemed to have the biggest problem for me, but the others weren’t far behind!

    #21475

    The Telenator
    Participant

    All rightie then! Let me post this while I take a much needed mixing break. Finally have come up to speed completely in knowing how to get around confidently in Podium, so of course I went through the night recording again. Dead beat and need a nap before trying to mix objectively anymore. My ears aren’t toast but my brain seems to be. I found a good 12-step group to help deal with my VST/VSTi addiction, only to transfer it to my favorite DAW, and now I have become a Podium junkie. Oh, well. There are worse things in this world.

    I have recreated the SPIKING many times that was reported earlier. The rest may be still a mystery (I’m 95% going with weak or incompatible soundcards for your other problems, though), but I have seen the spike repeatedly that was described. Many variables any time you take a given DAW X and put it with PC Y. Some things play well together, some things don’t, but I still think that’s the issue underneath it all.

    I figured the perfect villain to use for the test would be DENSITY MKII. It’s not the worst of CPU hogs but it seems to cause grief on most DAWs in one way or the other. On REAPER it likes to refuse to re-open its UI but usually just loads a little slow the first time. On restart it usually freezes everything for a half minute perhaps, then works. There is a thread or comments on their forum about it, and I have similar results. It acted up on Cubase, too, but can’t remember details. Density also happens to be one of my very favorite mixdown comp./limiters, so there’s no way I’m not going to do all to make it work.

    When loaded into the Master or any track it causes a spike — very quick to sometimes 80-90% into the red on the Mix meter on Podium, then slides back in waves to a normal 1 to 7% depending on what else is used. Now THIS is only on idle — plug functioning but no sound thru-put. Happens every time and I’m sure I could find some other plug that would act up. I wonder . . . Ambience? That one is known to be fidgety sometimes.

    The good news is, it goes back to normal behavior when processing sound — no issues then, so that’s a relief. I’ve been using it to polish some lead guitar tracks all night. When I get annoyed watching the meter I just X out, disable the plug while doing other things. Is this a Podium Bug? Yes, I believe it technically is, or an idiosyncrasy at the very least but does not slow down or harm any of my tracks in any way. It’s more like an annoying uncle who overstays his visit. So this is only the “Mix” in lower right corner of Podium, not 90% of Windows 7 CPUs by any means. My Sidebar meter only flickers a very few percentage points.

    Does this sound exactly like what was reported earlier? It sure looks like it to me. I also tested to be very sure — it’s nothing at all to do with denormals. I employed the capable voltage-variable digitalfishphones gizmo to check that possibility. So you were correct earlier on that point.

    Maybe more on the other matter another time, but I’m really thinking soundcard. A basic, reliable interface with a pro ASIO can take so much weight off of any second-rate card. I’ve now gone 100% with ASIO4ALL to run my Digitech stuff and it works great in 24 bit. (I’m guessing that) Digitech’s own ASIO simply will not release the soundcard on exit and tho specifically designed for this hardware it is also audibly worse in latency.

    #21476

    michi_mak
    Participant

    [quote=”The Telenator”…My ears aren’t toast but my brain seems to be…[/quote]

    if you say so …

    if you blame a mediocre soundcard driver for the poor performance this would lead to poor performance in other hosts too, wouldn’t it?!?
    so how come, my test succeded on other hosts ( same testing conditions so to speak )???

    #21478

    kim_otcj
    Participant

    I’m not quite sure what you want out of us, michi_mak. We’re not seeing Podium as being any more of a CPU hog than anything else. Nor are we in a position to see how your own system might be screwed up.

    I made about two-dozen recordings with Podium Free on my old Pentium IV desktop comp. It worked fine. Podium actually worked better on that system than Acid Music Studio did, because it’s offline render bouncing doesn’t glitch when the CPU hits 100%.

    #21479

    The Telenator
    Participant

    kim, loving all issues re music and computers, this is a welcome and needed distraction during breaks. Now that I have a good handle on Podium I need to clear out a backlog of about 2 dozens tunes in various stages when I left Cubase. Whoa! This Podium truly kicks ass, and I’m using REAPER via ReaRoute or more commonly as a ReWire slave — one powerful and super hot setup. Took another little break earlier and went all through and did full customization of all Podium’s editors and misc. Some didn’t need much ’cause I really fell for Podium as is. Using mainly Digitech guitar gear into DAW via USB. The digitech has always sounded great, but the sound I’m getting blows this old geezer totally away. Hardly needs any further processing. All the groovy sounds being pre-processed outboard saving me at least 25% CPU to boot. Otherwise, I’m back to workaholic with no gigs till Valentines. Got to get caught up!

    I know I like to run long when I post — kind of like talking to myself as therapy I guess, considering how quiet things are around here most of the time! I hope to put my verbal excess to good use late this summer and give Frits a break by going through a fine-comb edit of the Wiki/Guide. Any others editorially inclined out there? It’s getting way outdated and lots of little spelling, grammar, clarity glitches.

    I think it’s actually a LAW: Designers should not have to write the manual. That’s usually reserved for hacks such as myself. Former career-track music magazine editor until I retired to return to the life of a starving artist.

    Anyhow, for michi and others interested the actual meat of this particular post is quite brief:

    SOUNDCARD INTERFACE ASIO

    Yup, and to answer michi’s latest and re-occuring question, the answer is Yes and No.

    Just like ASIO4ALL works just great for over half of all who need it, for a lot of others it will not work at all. Not completely related here but it just doesn’t like certain soundcards and software. In some respects we need to realize that audio on PCs is just now coming out of the Stone Age. The only reason there is any audio at all on computers is because kids demand to play video games and listen to Justin Bieber. No joke. Microsoft couldn’t care less about us musicians and our audio needs, so people need to get used t it.

    I knew about this before, but I researched it again. His PC is probably good enough otherwise, although we have to guess. On most forums they won’t even acknowledge your presence if needing help unless you post EVERY spec, stat, detail, fork over your ini files, whatever.

    Yes, it’s a flukey digital world we live in. Some PCs act like they have a true personality, some act like snots, just like some people have charisma and others can’t buy a job for any price. Something in relation to his use of Podium (apparently, and this is my theory) is locking down his whole works through the weak link of the soundcard. Don’t care what else it may look or sound like, or how many times and ways it may have worked on various other setups. You see this everywhere and on every forum all the time — it’s the soundcards and related that are halting, locking down, freezing, crashing, refusing to boot these computers. Plugin crashes are becoming less common. It’s the SOUNDCARD and the driver(s) involved.

    I’m willing to bet the PC has a truly terrible card, one on everybody’s list; next, I’ll guess that his motherboard is close behind. The chip is probably just fine. They almost never die. One thing we can say for sure, though, it really has nothing to do with Podium. From my experimenting I’ve found the design is almost crash proof — unless you lock it up with a 3rd-party driver.

    Cheers!

    #21483

    kim_otcj
    Participant

    I can get a crash out of Podium with some of the older and flakier VSTs I’ve got. But I know that isn’t Podium’s fault.

    #21484

    michi_mak
    Participant

    type of soundcard was mentioned on page one ( also which driver is in use ) …
    the pc specs don’t change when launching a different host which was able to play back the test project, so i can’t see the point!
    btw where’s The Telenators sig telling his/her specs?!?

    #21485

    The Telenator
    Participant

    michi, I went back and checked — the only info you offered was use of an M-Audio 2496. Period. This is feed thru your card, No? And . . .

    I’ve explained all the rest above.

    The Telenator is not “telling his/her specs?!?” because The Telenator is not the one complaining and asking for help. The Telenator does his own research (and yours, in this case), almost always resolves his own issues, and knows how to keep his business clean.

    The Telenator’s specs and info are N/A.

    #21486

    michi_mak
    Participant

    @The Telenator wrote:

    … use of an M-Audio 2496. Period. This is feed thru your card, No? And . . .
    I’ve explained all the rest above.

    M-Audio 2496 IS the soundcard …
    i really like your patronizing wording 😉

    #21487

    The Telenator
    Participant

    Patronizing . . . really? I’ve done all your work for you during my breaks.

    You need to learn the basic protocols for posting problems or receiving help on audio forums. You need to provide all your specs. At least two others have pointed this out to you.

    You also need to learn how to do your own research and solve some of your own issues. Here:

    http://www.avantfind.com/search.asp?keywords=M%2DAudio+2496+ASIO+problem

    Here, just one example of a dozen:

    http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread.php?29805-M-audio-2496-problem-i-cant-set-my-volume-on-FL-studio-10-when-i-change-on-asio

    The ASIO that you DIDN’T LIST for us is apparently one of those DELTA types, and it is known to cause issues in several DAWs. Zynewave Podium was not mentioned in any of the links, but FL Studio, Sonar, and a few more common ones were. You could have other issues with your hardware, but how can any of us know? I’ve thoroughly covered two of them for you. It is extremely clear at this point that your issue has absolutely nothing to do with Podium itself. I have pursued this partly because if Podium was indeed to blame I wanted to know for my personal knowledge but, more than that, I don’t want to see newbies and potential users misled by anyone posting incorrect accusations. If someone’s software is crap and I can prove it, hey, I’ll be the first to critique, otherwise not. Plenty of false information on the Net already without making it worse. Set up properly, Podium is a killer DAW. I’ll be proving that with some music posts shortly.

    #21491

    Trancit
    Participant

    Ok,

    I don´t know, what problems others have here or not… I can only tell you my experiences and test/comparisons I have made with different hosts:

    First of all: There is definitely a problem with some spiking of the Podium engine, especially if you drive the CPU usage quite high, there are spikes about 20% or more…

    Second: the specs of a computer are secondary as long as it works (or works better) with more than one other host on the same system with the same settings…

    Third: The performance of Podium at least on my system is far behind other competitors….

    I wrote already about the first test I did with an everyday situation, where Podium took about double CPU than Reaper and FL Studio…

    In a second test I did (of course not a normal situation) I tried to get as many voices out of Sylenth as a host can handle on my systems without audible underruns…
    Here I left Reaper out of the game, because I tested it before and can run much more voices than every other host on the market, so i only compared FL Studio and Podium:

    In FLS I can run 45 instances of Sylenth each playing 96 voices…

    In Podium to me happend the following:
    I ran 35 instances with a CPU use (Podium´s own meter) of 72% as it started to spike up to 96% about 5 seconds after the sequence was started with of course audible underruns…

    Again… first 5 seconds were ok at 72% CPU…than Podium intodruced spikes of more than 20% higher CPU for everytime about 100ms with audible underruns…

    No other host do have that problem on my system, it´s definetely a Podium problem… and that means to me 960 synth voices less!!!!!!!!!!

    My specs:

    CPU: Intel Q 6600 @ 2,4GHz
    Ram: 2 gigs
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3R
    Graphics: Geforce 8400 GS
    Audio EMU 404 with own ASIO drivers @ 440 samples latency @ 44.1 KHz
    Windows 1 32 bit / Service Pack 1

    The system is completely optimized and runs fine on everything except Podium…period

    #21492

    The Telenator
    Participant

    Trancit, I’ll answer what I can for now — a bit squeezed for time this week.

    There is definitely a problem with some spiking of the Podium engine, especially if you drive the CPU usage quite high, there are spikes about 20% or more

    All Daws have a degree of spiking. I covered that above when I tested it myself the other day.

    Second: the specs of a computer are secondary …

    It usually is secondary, but not always. It’s a great help in ruling out other possibilities.

    I compared Podium and REAPER above also, two DAWs I know best these days. Sorry, I realize my posts tend to run long and info may get buried, but some of these answers are already stated above.

    that means to me 960 synth voices less!!!!!!!!!!

    Believe it or not, you see this kind of abstract testing a lot on forums but it serves no real purpose. It’s pointless to run any test that is not a real-world-usage situation. It’s like stating, Hey, my DAW doesn’t run on the planet Jupiter! The answer always has to be, So What?

    I ran 35 instances with a CPU use (Podium´s own meter) . . .

    If you are referring to the Mix meter in the bottom right corner, that is NOT your system’s CPU usage; that is Podium’s own internal processing and can be misleading if you are unfamiliar about how that works. That’s an easy mistake to make, though. That’s why I’ve suggested at least twice on these forums that users get something accurate and fast-reading such as Process Explorer. Otherwise, it’s guesswork.

    The system is completely optimized and runs fine on everything except Podium…

    I think what you really mean here is that you’ve discovered a couple of DAWs that work well with your gear, unless you have tested the some 30 or 40 now extant. And you should be happy you have found some you like, because there are numerous variables in PCs and setups. I’ve had issues with other DAW and plugin software before, too. In fact, this is why Zynewave states that everyone should test the free version on their systems first. What works on your machine may perform poorly on mine. Often a reason can be found, but sometimes it can be quite difficult to determine the core problem, as system configurations are almost limitless these days. One of my hobbies is testing software for bugs. I was saying before how much I also like REAPER, and it’s very efficient with employing plugins. At the same time the current release is a jittery mess of bugs. Those guys over there are wild and fast with the updates and stuff slips by them constantly. At least Frits here at Zynewave is careful, and if a new Podium release ends up with a bug you know it is something bizarre that the average mortal would have to miss!

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