Conquistador.
ConquistadorHi Frits,
Nice new look. One of the best mixers anywhere…looks like an advanced version of a Pro tools mixer. 🙂
Some things to consider please…
I would prefer not to have to bring this up as it will likely delay the release of 2.04 but it has to be 100% ready not just available.
Shrinking sizes….
a.The small font option is quite odd IMO. It is barely legible. Thankfully there is an option to change it back to the default size. Have you now changed the default size to the smaller font?
Why the sudden change to fonts that are barely legible? Sorry.
b. Even the send dials are now smaller than those from 2.03. Again why so much effort into reducing the size of text and other aspects? Really Frits the mixer was only just about OK for size before, considering the mixer strip digits are still tiny.
I think you said you use a 1600 x 1200 resolution…I’m not sure how the smaller text is better this way for you?!?!? did you get a bigger screen? Seriously?
Added “Bypass” and “Editor” options to the column of mixer control buttons. Deselecting either of these will hide the buttons from the track headers and instead indicate bypass and editor state with a colored frame drawn around the device controls.
Bypass, Editor, Green, Yellow outline idea… Slick.
I like this. But now the GP IMO needs the same treatment for consistency. It’s getting confusing little by little without enough documentation to reference, it is a problem. If the GP has the same options then you could get away with the lack of documentation for a short time maybe…just about.
If you add those options to the Group Menu drop down list (Bypass, Editor – green, yellow outlines) you could effectively do away with the at times confusing E button.
Track options in the arranger also (right click or track properties) would mean no need for the E button in Podium at all.
The Mixer Grid…
The GPO IMO must be open or one can get lost easily with the mixer grid. I really do not like it. Sorry. Testing it is confusing let alone trying to use it. I don’t think I could trust it frankly.
Here’s why…
a. If you remove the RMS option from the track properties options the blocks on the mixer strip spill on to the meter. They overlap graphically.
b. On many occassions when hiding a track in the mixer the current visible track will have three or four blocks that are visible (full blocks). Very confusing to say the least. I had to click on each block to try and find out where I was and remove the blocks that should have been outlines, not full blocks. It’s confusing just talking about it sorry.
H-Man mentioned something similar earlier in this thread…
Frits, I did notice that for an existing project, if the Gain and Pan controlls were already enabled for an insert effect, then you would see two ‘full’ squares in the Fader column.
Don’t think that this means much though as clicking another square seems to correct this. Also this would only be relevant for old projects.
c. This one made me very wary of using the mixer grid at all…
…every so often If I deleted an effect track if there was an effect track below it in the chain, that FX tracks meters and fader would vanish. It’s difficult to reproduce so that makes potentially difficult to fix..e.t.c
d. I can still somehow link the faders…sorry Frits I just think the mixer Grid idea add complexity when there is no need for it. I have suggested the Post button idea which is so simple. I initially thought the grid idea would be fantasitic but I would not make use of it at all.
The Post button idea is a simplified way to get to the Pre or post FX fader+ Meter of a Mixer strip. Simple.
e. Because of the size of the blocks (I appreciate there is little space left) it is still too easy to click the wrong one. It just adds complexity where we need simplicity. A simple Post or Pre button and that’s it. Simplified versions of your more advanced right click menus for Fader and Meter as I suggested before.
New since the latest beta2 is an option to show pan faders instead of dials,
The glass effect adds a very stylish graphical consistency to the other aspects in the mixer. Simply brilliant. It will be a joy to use those. The logical extension of the current glass faders IMO.
Comments/suggestions will be appreciated.
I am sorry I do not bring good tidings for you all the way…but thankfully you are open to user feedback and ideas. These are my views. Of course the more viewpoints you get, the better you will be able to gauge what should be revised or not at this point.
HTH
ConquistadorJust had a thought…
If you just cannot do away with the mixer grid idea (maybe it can still work) …please do consider allowing the following at least, as this may be the best way forward…
a. Mixer Grid as an Advanced Mixer option. It is most certainly much more advanced than the Simple Pre Post idea.
b. Mixer Grid is not visible by default. But an “Advanced” button could be added just below the Latency button on the left side of the mixer in your screenshot. That would activate it.
c. The Post button idea I suggested added as a “Simple” option. Again as a button on the mixer that is visible on the left side. If you think that will be too many buttons then you could add Advanced and Simple options…(your Grid and my Post idea) to the Mixer Regions menu so that it is out of the way or in the Preferences options e.t.c
d. Instead of the Mixer Grids current size (too small IMO) you could allow a user to click on the Grid and a bigger Grid pops out that allows a user a far more realisitic hit point. Not much bigger but a third or more in size. This would probably be ideal for a mixer region option. A small bar at the top can be clicked when this is visible to allow a user to remove it from view until the Grid is clicked again. “Hide” could be visible on this small strip on the pop up Grid.
I am really trying to help here Frits (you cannot possbly think of everything) I think both ideas ( your Grid and my Post suggestion) can co exist and actually really raise the levels of accessibility, ease of use, advanced flexibility and functionality for the mixer in one single update. But the decision is yours. Hopefully these suggestions can make things easier for you one way or another.
HTH.
ConquistadorSorry more thoughts…:P
I think the space under the Latency button could be used to give some sort of running update of the Mixer Grid.
Right now the GP must be open as it really lets you see what the mixer grid is doing but…close the Inspector and it can get confusing too easily IMO. Maybe something like the name of the currently controlled track meter and the name of the currently controlled track fader…
Drums Meter
Guitar fader
When both blocks (full row) are selected…you see…
Drums Fader
Drums Meter
This info would be visible under the Latency button. Probably right at the bottom of that area instead of just under it.
This would allow a user to not need to have the GP open to use the Mixer Grid more effectively and avoid getting confused. The grid is definitely an advanced feature but this additional info would certainly help a great deal IMO.
HTH.
TechnophobiaI must be just dumb….
Where, exactly, are the options for removing the arrows and for making the Pan dials into faders ?
I have been looking through all the menu’s I can and I cannot see them 😳 .
Is there no way of having separate mouse activation areas that will just bring up Menu options for that particular feature ?
e.g. right click on the Pan Dial/Fader and a pop up menu with the option to change it to a Fader/Dial, Pan Law etc appears. Change it for one Pan, changes for all. Click on a Meter brings up a pop up for the option of which K meter you would like (once selected, all meters adhere to the selection). I’m not sure everybody knows which specific type of K meter they want at project setup and trying to change that later is more obscured than it should be.
Don’t get me wrong Frits, I really appreciate the ideas you have and are implementing :D. I just can’t help but feel that the program is now getting so complex and options are buried in way to deep on menus that list all manner of things I am not interested in for the button/dial etc I am trying to change function of.
I can appreciate that you work with the program all the time and you instantly know where to look for the stuff you need to access but I suspect most other people are like me and struggle to find something that should be easily found.
The huge amount of menu trawling was the main reason for me leaving Cubase and Sonar behind. It all got in the way of trying to quickly change things and carry on with recording.
Keep up the good work and the innovations but, please keep in mind that it also needs to be easy to access 🙂 .
I like the Mixer Grid (brilliant idea) and I would go with Conquistador on this, make it a pop up that is slightly larger to enable easy selection the required block. 🙂
Can anybody else chime in on this or is it just me that feels this way.
UncleAge@Technophobia wrote:
The huge amount of menu trawling was the main reason for me leaving Cubase and Sonar behind. It all got in the way of trying to quickly change things and carry on with recording.
I can definitely understand where you are coming from on this one. I think Frits is doing a decent job of walking that fine line though. On one hand we want more features and on the other, he needs to maintain the appearance of “simple”. Tough to do, really.
Most of the menu’s appear to be context sensitive when possible, with the global stuff buried a little deeper. It is starting to get that feel though and I can’t quite put my finger on exactly what is giving me that vibe.
UncleAgeI’d also like to add that I like the look and feel of the mixer in the new beta. And I like that I can click on a vst and the editor opens up. I don’t really see a need for the “E” button with this functionality present other than to make it look consistent with the track panel.
kingtubby@Technophobia wrote:
Where, exactly, are the options for removing the arrows and for making the Pan dials into faders ?
It’s not just you, I can’t find it either. Is it supposed to be in the ‘Mixer Region Properties’?
Is there no way of having separate mouse activation areas that will just bring up Menu options for that particular feature ?
e.g. right click on the Pan Dial/Fader and a pop up menu with the option to change it to a Fader/Dial, Pan Law etc appears.
Agree – More right-click context menus would help I think.
Mart.
swindus@kingtubby wrote:
@Technophobia wrote:
Where, exactly, are the options for removing the arrows and for making the Pan dials into faders ?
It’s not just you, I can’t find it either. Is it supposed to be in the ‘Mixer Region Properties’?
This is not available in the Beta from the VIP forum, just in the latest Beta on Frits machine. 😉
Zynewave@swindus wrote:
@kingtubby wrote:
@Technophobia wrote:
Where, exactly, are the options for removing the arrows and for making the Pan dials into faders ?
It’s not just you, I can’t find it either. Is it supposed to be in the ‘Mixer Region Properties’?
This is not available in the Beta from the VIP forum, just in the latest Beta on Frits machine. 😉
I was about to write that I may not have been clear in my last post, where I wrote that the screenshot showed things implemented since beta2. Beta3 will hopefully be uploaded later today.
ZynewaveBeta3 is now available.
Besides the features already discussed, there are some new nice things in this beta:
• Added “automatic solo” track option. Tracks that have this option enabled will be soloed automatically when solo is activated on other tracks. The mode can be toggled by Shift+Alt+Clicking solo buttons or by pressing Shift+Alt+S. When creating a new arrangement the bus return group track will be set to automatic solo mode.
• Added “Solo”, “Automatic Solo”, “Mute”, “Record” and “Bounce” options to the properties submenu of the track context menu.
The “automatic solo” mode is what is otherwise known as “Solo Defeat” in Cubase and “Solo Safe” in Logic. When soloing a track, it is now no longer necessary to also solo the bus return section if you want to listen to the soloed track with bus send processing.
Please note that this beta still does not save the new options to the project file.
Conquistador@Zynewave wrote:
Beta3 is now available.
Besides the features already discussed, there are some new nice things in this beta:
• Added “automatic solo” track option. Tracks that have this option enabled will be soloed automatically when solo is activated on other tracks. The mode can be toggled by Shift+Alt+Clicking solo buttons or by pressing Shift+Alt+S. When creating a new arrangement the bus return group track will be set to automatic solo mode.
• Added “Solo”, “Automatic Solo”, “Mute”, “Record” and “Bounce” options to the properties submenu of the track context menu.
The “automatic solo” mode is what is otherwise known as “Solo Defeat” in Cubase and “Solo Safe” in Logic. When soloing a track, it is now no longer necessary to also solo the bus return section if you want to listen to the soloed track with bus send processing.
Please note that this beta still does not save the new options to the project file.
Cheers Frits.
I have to say though if was a Cubase or Logic user I would have a better idea as to how to use these features but please explain in more detail…
…would these solo options allow me to automatically solo a corresponding midi mapping for a Stylus audio output track? If so how would I use these features to do it?
Or putting it another way would it solve the first problem listed in the A case for a reduction thread?
Thanks.
Zynewave@Conquistador wrote:
a.The small font option is quite odd IMO. It is barely legible. Thankfully there is an option to change it back to the default size. Have you now changed the default size to the smaller font?
I’ve changed the default back to the normal font size, to keep the consistency with the overall UI. The smaller font option was a FR. Even though it may be harder to read for some people, it allows for longer track and mapping names on the strips.
b. Even the send dials are now smaller than those from 2.03. Again why so much effort into reducing the size of text and other aspects?
They are the same size as the dials in the inspector group panel. If you select the new “show send dial on separate line” option then the send dials will appear as in previous Podium versions.
Zynewave@Conquistador wrote:
b. Mixer Grid is not visible by default. But an “Advanced” button could be added just below the Latency button on the left side of the mixer in your screenshot. That would activate it.
You can hide what you call “mixer grid” with the “Chain” button on the mixer.
Zynewave@Technophobia wrote:
Is there no way of having separate mouse activation areas that will just bring up Menu options for that particular feature ?
e.g. right click on the Pan Dial/Fader and a pop up menu with the option to change it to a Fader/Dial, Pan Law etc appears. Change it for one Pan, changes for all. Click on a Meter brings up a pop up for the option of which K meter you would like (once selected, all meters adhere to the selection). I’m not sure everybody knows which specific type of K meter they want at project setup and trying to change that later is more obscured than it should be.Don’t get me wrong Frits, I really appreciate the ideas you have and are implementing :D. I just can’t help but feel that the program is now getting so complex and options are buried in way to deep on menus that list all manner of things I am not interested in for the button/dial etc I am trying to change function of.
As UncleAge mentioned, it’s not easy to walk the fine line between “more features/less UI”.
One thing I need to consider when implementing customization of e.g. the mixer is to present it in a way that the actual customization options does not make the mixer appear more complex. That’s why I prefer to put the most typical “set and forget” settings into dialogs, and not have them as options in a range of different context menus.
The global options examples you mention (“fader/dial”, “pan law”, “K-Meter scale”) are options that most users would set only once when creating a new arrangement. Thus I prefer that you don’t see these options when you work with the controls and menus on the mixer and the rest of the immediately visible UI.
You mention that you would like different context menus for various controls on the mixer. Personally I like the fact that I can right-click anywhere on the mixer strip to get the track menu. If there were different context menus, I would need to pay more attention when right-clicking.
Zynewave@Conquistador wrote:
I have to say though if was a Cubase or Logic user I would have a better idea as to how to use these features but please explain in more detail…
…would these solo options allow me to automatically solo a corresponding midi mapping for a Stylus audio output track? If so how would I use these features to do it?
Or putting it another way would it solve the first problem listed in the A case for a reduction thread?
Selecting the “automatic solo” mode for a track means that the track will be soloed once ANY other track is soloed, so I don’t think that will be useful in your example with a multi-out plugin. To be able to solo a set of tracks with related mappings, place them all under a group track and solo/mute the group track.