Conquistador's Forum Page

@Zynewave wrote:

Is Timestretching back on the menu now?

It hasn’t returned to the top of the priority list yet. The timestretching was sidetracked by the mixer improvements leading from discussions on this forum. I still have some ideas for improving the mixer/track management, which I want to carry through. The control surface support is not finished either.

Ok cool. Thanks for the update. 😉

@H-man wrote:

Conquistador, I have done some testing on my sytem recently and have observed that Task Manager (when open) causes these (20 – 30%) spikes.

Hi H -Man,

Yes you are correct but I already knew about the Task manager being open and Podium spiking but…that was just another cause for the spikes not the reason I started this thread.

I would not work with the Task manager open anyway.

I only mentioned the Task manager to give Frits a comparison with Podiums CPU meter. The spikes I was experiencing were with the Task manager *not open or even minimised*.

No Virus scanner or Firewall active either. It turned out to be a graphics setting I had to play around with. Adjusting for perfomance seemed to solve the problem. Strangely pushing all the settings back up for the highest quality seemed to keep things normal. I may have just needed to re load some graphic settings. In any case it worked. 🙂

Instead I used System Informaiton for Windows (SIW) http://www.gtopala.com/ for which the spikes did not appear.

Ok…definitely worth a look thanks.

Everyone’s PC is different however I can assert that on my system, I would certainly see these spikes (in Poduim) when Task Manager was open, and they would dissapear when Task Manager was closed.

Agreed, see above. 🙂

@Klemperer wrote:

But this is so obviously changing after a few seconds and does no harm, so any demo-user won’t bother with this.

I think it will not of course bother everyone. But I do think there are some people like me and many others who have posted CPU issues on this forum that will be concerned. Having said that I was referring to playback issues, not the initial start up CPU burst.

So perhaps we are talking about the same thing but in a different scenario. 😉

In any case I think I know what the cause and maybe solution is now unless Frits tells me I don’t know what I am talking about 🙂

The Windows task manager possibly measures over longer periods, and so short spikes are evened out.

Maybe. I have no idea. I wish I knew. 🙄

I consider the Podium CPU indicator both as a measure for general CPU load, as well as a warning indicator of how close you are to overloading. I think it is important to show the spikes, because if they happen to go to 100%, you will get audio dropouts.

I think I know what the problem is. If…and I repeat if 😉 Podium’s CPU meter is not just reporting what the CPU performance of Podium is FX, VSTi load for instance..if it is also showing underruns as they happen, then that I think is why there are spikes.

Perhaps they are not spikes (which sounds like a bug) but underrun readings. I think the problem here is that compared to other hosts (comparison is unavoidable) it does look problematic to see strange spikes in a CPU meter. Others are steady (likely not reporting underrun activity) and as a result appear stable or less erratic compared to Podium’s CPU meter.

Anyway, cut a long story short…I read Technophobias thread here

http://www.zynewave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=819&highlight=spikes

From what I read there, it is almost certainly what the problem is. It probably is not the sensitivity at all, but the fact that underrun activity readings (correct readings most likely) are shown on the same CPU meter that reports, for want of a better word, standard host CPU load. FX and VSTi’s CPU load for instance.

So I come out of Live 6…nice steady CPU…load up Podium after 30 bars wham…30% spike. Huh?

It must be underunns. Correct?

Also I dont seem to get any drop outs audio wise. Perhaps this muddys the waters a bit. The spikes I get are at very low CPU usage 15%? So the spikes are surely not telling me about an impending overload, not at 15%! So what is going on at such a low CPU setting?

Can one or should one get underunns even at low CPU usage?

Other hosts may have less sensitive CPU indicators, but you then risk getting unexpected audio dropouts at a lower CPU percentage.I’ve seen posts on kvr where people state that for some hosts they can only reliably utilize up to ~60% before they start getting audio dropouts.

I think this may be the case for every host. Including Podium. I think once you get close to 70% one is probably pushing it. But…I have actually gone further in Podium but of course one spike at that kind of load and a red flash will likely follow.

Do underruns always lead to drop outs in audio? If so why do I not get dropouts when the CPU spikes?

Does Podium provide a reading for the ASIO sample point position and underunns seprately as they happen or are they the same thing? Problems with the sample point positions causing underruns which Podium reports to the UI (CPU meter)?

FL studio…

This has a very interesting option that lets you see them as they happen. Just like Podium but…in numerical form not as a CPU reading. As you adjust this setting in FL the underruns reduce until a balance is acheived.

More details here…
http://www.flstudio.com/help/html/glossary_underrun.htm

Please try out FL’s demo and play any demo track and go to this setting in FL to see the underrun numerical read out change as you adjuts the buffer settings. Bottom left of second image

http://www.zynewave.com/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&p=8928

Is this what is being shown on Podiums CPU meter?

Many questions, sorry 🙂 but I am trying to understand what is going on here as it does not look like a bug or such but perhaps a different way of displaying that info. An idea…

…a small meter next to Mix/File and a small tool tip that appears explaining what it does would be better.

That would mean the Mix CPU meter would better mirror other hosts causing a lot less confusion. You would also not need in any way to alter the current reporting process in Podium.

If Technophobias thread is anything to go by that information (underrun activity in full view of a user) shows how problematic some ASIO drivers are. So well done there. 8)

Raising my latency a little produced a steady CPU setting 5% either way 20ms. OK for mixing but not playing.

If I was to play a piece I guess I could bounce it down to audio early but…even playback at 10ms here produced spikes with Stylus RMX.

Can you consider a small meter like the I/O meter that maybe has U written on it for underunns?

Thoughts?

Ok done some tests and comparisons.

Podium seems to be running perfectly OK as far as the Windows task manager is concerned…only 5 % roughly CPU changes at any given time.

No 20 -30 % spikes, so as you suspected it may very well be Podiums CPU meter that is perhaps too sensitive.

But within Podium random spikes continued sometimes once during an 80 bar track at times more than once. While all this was going on the Windows task manager showed a steady CPU load with only a 5% change roughly either way.

One of course does not want a CPU reading that is not responsive enough but it is almost as if Podiums CPU meter’s attack setting is too high (for want of a better word to describe it) so it’s picking up things it need not.

Compared to Sonar, Live and Project 5 they only have about a 5% – 7% movement either way roughly.

Podium can be running with about a similar CPU variation in load for half a track then wham…30% increase. In some cases for a split second even higher. It just does not happen like that with other hosts I have tried.

It must be Podiums CPU reading because windows CPU reading AFAICT from my tests is not erratic and does not have crazy 30% spikes or higher out of nowhere.

It seems a strange problem to have in such a reliable host but perhaps a slight reduction in the attack of the CPU sensitivity setting would do the job and bring Podiums CPU meter a bit more in line with others I have tried.