The TelenatorUPDATE:
Suddenly now Ableton is saying Live 9 will be available first quarter of next year, not by the holiday season, along with a controller/instrument/pads thing called Push. I found the demos for both sort of interesting.
There is still that notorious latency issue with Live. Apparently, and although details are still sketchy, of all the improvements Ableton has made to their DAW, they haven’t figured a way to improve their latency problem. Obviously, though, these other improvements are timed perfectly to give the new Bitwig DAW a run for the money as Bitwig moves to its final beta testing to make ready for its release.
The TelenatorYes, epicVerb is one of the few plugins that has a tendency to do all said above in Podium, but I liked it too much to give up on it. Never had an issue with any of the other Bootsy or VOS VSTs. I can’t recall if it gave me any grief with any other DAW. Might have acted up in my Cubase 4, but it’s been so long since that DAW and don’t use it anymore
I wouldn’t be surprised if the plugin receives an update soon. I think the plan is to release new editions in both of those whole collections. A couple of them received a new Mk number recently.
The TelenatorInteresting background story:
The TelenatorThanks so much for that mention of Vielklang — it does everything I’d wanted from Melodyne and was half the price.
The TelenatorAlas, after installing and working with energyXT2 a little, I have discovered that I don’t care for whatever in the world it is doing in the background in attempting to micro-manage, take stock of, who knows, fiddle with my other plugins. Not going to investigate exactly what, in fact, is going on, but I don’t allow such behavior and wonder if any of this has been part of the problem with any editions of this product.
Without any real remorse, I’ve removed it and sent it through the shredder. It only soved one specific problem I’d had anyway, something new toy TX16Wx in its new 2.0 edition may be able to address.
The TelenatorIf I were recording a symphony orchestra live, with all the dynamics in range that this will produce, then we can start talking again about ultra-high quality such as 192kHz and $1500 to $5000 for your interfaces.
You know, great producers and sound people have their various quirks and preferences. There are a few still around who believe recording rock bands that play Rolling Stones quality of music at 16 bits is plenty good enough. I mean it is rock and rough pop, after all. Some will say it keeps things just raunchy enough to sound honest. I’m not suggesting you do this, but some of the top dogs have and do.
The bit about the free version. No explanation needed. Even if you’re not on a super-tight budget, as most of us are here, there are enough other things we all need to acquire. At some point we end up with enough and adequate stuff. Podium has its shortcomings — and I sometimes discuss them — but whether the free or license version, only REAPER can compare in value. And that is saying a lot indeed. I now have both because of their affordable licenses, and they work well together, too. I couldn’t be happier really. REAPER is slightly bone-headed in the MIDI editor; Podium comes to the rescue. Podium has routing limitations; REAPER has almost none. I have Ableton, but it is more a distraction or toy, because I’m too old school to be a clip-based sound person.
Feature Requests. Well, who can say what or when? For many users, one of our side pursuits is fiddling with workarounds to do what we want. Every DAW has its issues. Recently Pro Tools had some bad bugs. I haven’t heard the fix on that yet. I find Podium much more intriguing and attractive in several ways. I’m currently at peace and still learning interesting little tricks to keep improving performance.
The TelenatorYou are totally welcome. Your illustrations were kick-butt.
The second part: It is technically a fault of Podium itself but no big deal, as long as everyone knows that plugin rejection is likely to happen. Frits can explain it better, of course, but, yes, Podium sort of chokes on the huge VSTs and their tonne of files and things that come with them. The next innocent plugin often pays the price. Probably should be a small caution notice about it in the guide, since this seems to keep coming up.
I should also emphasize that Podium, in my experience, is much more stable and solid handling plugins than several other DAWs. Ableton is notorious for having issues with some, and my very last use of Cubase, version 5, had a terrible time with many good plugins. It hated anything by TAL (Togu Audio Line), didn’t like some of the better SynthEdit types such as Bootsy or certain Nasty. Just ridiculous back then. They have fixed I think all of that now, being in edition 6.5, but it used to be so aggravating. I was playing with Proteus VX back then, which would really face plant Cubase while trying to load.
The TelenatorVery cool, and thanks, Levendis. I ought to have a look at those you named. I suspect you have seen at the very least some of Melodyne’s demo video from their site or on YouTube, because it seems like black magic, some of it. Pretty clever how it can isolate, then manipulate any desired chunk of sound. I had no idea, though, that there was anything else yet even half as good.
The full Melodyne package costs an arm and a leg. That’s way beyond my budget, of course, but the basic editor part is much less. Still real money, though. I think that part comes bundled these days with the newest edition of the Presonis Studio One, which is a nice perk but doesn’t seem to be attracting too many converts nonetheless. It seems to me that hooking something like that up to Podium would be a rather powerful setup.
I wanted to mention, also — that was a totally professional job you did on alex’s “Podium Mixer” thread. The illustration was very clear.
The TelenatorIt bears mention again, as I’ve posted somewhere else, and I think Frits mentioned it too once — WHEN PODIUM IS SCANNING MULTIPLE VST PLUGINS:
As in when you are building your database for the first time or making significant changes, IF Podium has just scanned a rather complicated dynamic library — and as you know, some plugins are insanely simple while others are truly massive — the very next plugin after scanning something complex will often get kicked to the Quarantine File, no matter what it is. Podium may falsely accuse the plug of performing an illegal operation, etc. Or perhaps it is just one of those dodgy, older SynthEdit VSTs that will work fine in 99% of cases but has some ‘rough edges’ to its GUI or design.
No matter — Open Up the Quarantine text file, delete the rejected plugin, Save the .txt file, close it, and load the plugin again afterward. I think of it this way: If I were Podium, I’d get tired piling in some of these more massive DLLs and their ‘stuff’ too.
I have used Podium to test more than 200 plugins of every sort imaginable at this point. I think in all that time there were two that were No Go and another one or two I’ve read about. Overall, one of Podium’s greatest strengths, to me, is how it works with plugins and their respective presets. Podium’s dealings with certain plugins’ presets is not perfect in all ways — and I expect before long the system will be modified slightly — yet at the same time it allows for some unique options in handling or creating presets that other DAWs are completely blind to process. I’d greater prefer, I think, having all presets simply show up in the inspector automatically and with no extra fuss anytime I put any plugin into focus, but at least I am able to build or import a library. Some DAWs, I believe, still will have none of this business. I’ve read so many threads elsewhere that are all about “Where are my stinking presets?!” or “My DAW can’t find my plugin’s native preset folder no matter what I try!”
The TelenatorSo . . . no one has used Melodyne stuff or knows what it is? With or without Podium? Hard to believe, considering it is perhaps the primo sound mangler-fixer of all time.
Zzzzzzzzzzzz . . .
The TelenatorI remember as little as a year ago it seemed that many of the ASIO drivers that came along with various interfaces were absolute rubbish. I’ve seen dramatic improvement recently, probably as a response to the many hundreds of complaints makers were receiving. However, still, in my own experience I find that ASIO4ALL often works better than the native driver supplied with the product.
I find this has little or nothing to do with the DAW(s) you like or use. I’ve had equal results on every one from Cubase to Podium, REAPER and lately my fooling around with Ableton.
A case in point is that I have three Digitech devices. Now, Digitech makes their own drivers, each for any gadget that will connect to a PC — and they work. Yet I find that ASIO4ALL works as well or better than the native drivers supplied, so I don’t even bother to use them anymore. I prefer ASIO4ALL because I never have to change over when I connect something else (both Podium and Ableton may have a fit and crash if you attempt to switch within any project). I have experienced the same results, sometimes even lower latency, when using some of the older M-Audio interfaces and so on. I’ve tested more than a dozen various interfaces with similar results, although I must say, the drivers are getting better just like everything else being updated at the speed of light these days.
When I first heard of ASIO4ALL I actually laughed, doubting that anyone could offer an generic ASIO that worked so well with such a vast array of devices — for free no less — but indeed it does, working better than several native drivers produced by top name brands. And now it has an update, which I am using and seems to be a tad ‘smoother’ in function somehow. Perhaps the newer beta is more compatible as well, because ASIO4ALL worked with most but not all devices on the market. More often, it has been the user’s sound card that is the real problem — one huge item to beware of when picking out your next laptop. To me, the sound cards that come with certain brands and models of PC are the last big issue left with everything we’re attempting to achieve. Search, if you care to read up on the list of really bad cards.
Regarding the “sound quality” mention, this is a myth that I’m sure we’ll hear more of in lengthy nonsense debate threads on other forums. Look, if you can bring in at least 24bits at no less than 44.1kHz then the case is closed. Interfaces and their drivers that cost many hundreds of US dollars will get you better, but if you are needing or using these, you probably aren’t the sort of person who relies on the freeware version of Podium in the first place. I suggest only hounds and 3 or 4 humans on this planet can appreciate the difference anyway, and I also suggest that those humans are lying and would fail any blindfold test.
Hope this helps. Cheers!
The TelenatorOh, yeah. I remember that! And I can now personally verify that the licensing was a real horror show. The website kept telling me I wasn’t logged in when in fact I was and it even stated so at the top of the page. After signing some five times, it finally gave me the key number (for an off-line computer registration). Then, I was done with those people!
Mine, being a bundled freebie with hardware, gratefully came with somewhat under a gig of files. I think also the players/host they are offering now is technically 5.5, so it may not be as bad as the former. I read about improvements to the player, for example.
I need to review the other thread some more, though, since I’m unclear about what the issue is as it applies to Podium.
The TelenatorI recently got Kontakt 5 and Reaktor 5 bundled with a keyboard I bought. I haven’t tried them with Podium yet — and it’s not critical I use them at all because I have plenty of other great sounds and instruments — but are you saying Native Instruments software does not work or does not work smoothly with Podium?
If so, what is the problem this time? I have the Abbey Road Drums now with this software, and I sure would like to use them eventually. I suppose I could always produce those drums on my Reaper or Ableton and bring them to Podium.
I can’t understand from this thread what the issue is. What’s up?
The Telenator“These software springing up like mushrooms!”
Isn’t that the truth! What’s more, updates on DAWs and plugins are starting to happen so often that I can hardly keep up with installing all this stuff.
The strange situation of Bitwig: it’s a clip-based DAW, very much like Ableton Live. The odd thing right now is they released what they are calling a “Beta” for testing that is so broken and incomplete that they quickly became one of the biggest industry jokes ever. It won’t handle 3rd-party VSTs, yet Bitwig’s own VSTs aren’t really functional yet, and half it’s other features aren’t working. I don’t know what they wanted all the signed-up testers to do besides turn it on and stare at it! It’s such a mess that I wouldn’t even call it an Alpha version as it is now. Very nice UI, IMO.
The TelenatorLet me answer this one ‘backwards’ if you will. I think the bit about ‘brevity’ here is a basic misunderstanding between our words or usage. A great case in point is a comparison between Reaper’s and Podium’s Guides. Reaper goes long and into great detail with each topic and how to use any very technical feature. I believe you cannot come away from their somewhat long-winded chapters without feeling extremely confident. In Podium’s, topics tend to be breezed over, often in short paragraphs and with little or no illustrations, arrows or support. I was actually doing rather better with Podium before I decided I ought to read the Guide, yet after each attempt I usually had a headache and was left confused as to what exactly was being discussed.
Regarding my own writing as in these threads, so, it seems now that it is not the usual length as much as my recent subject matter. Unfortunately, I am not a newbie here, so I can’t post a troublesome yet very different problem each thread. However, after the lot of us recently rehashed all feature requests, posting comments and a poll or two, following which I took an entire evening to post a sort of ‘Podium Critique”, we then experienced a groundswell of deafening silence concerning practically all of it. Now, imagine my dismay concerning that and also the fact that I had recently licensed and put in a truly huge amount of time learning Podium and attempting to make workarounds for each lack of a feature as I encountered them, one by one. Please add to that the fact that I was attracted to Podium in part by Zynewave’s own words on its home page, talking about the many ‘user-driven’ and forthcoming upgrades, and how Frits, though a one-man dev show for sure, was in a spot to devote all his time to improvements.
Well, apparently, things had changed, the page had not been updated, and I was completely unaware of this. Knowing then that my cause was futile, I decided to take a season to annoyingly drive home a few choice points of fact. Do keep in mind that I have always been among the first and loudest to praise Zynewave and Podium for its virtues and achievements. I believe in giving credit where credit is due. But I am meanwhile not of the sort to suffer well anything second rate in either myself, others, or the products I employ. I am no proponent of mediocrity, and there certainly is entirely too much of that in this world of DAWs and today’s digital recordings and personnel. The larger shame is that many of you put up with it well enough, don’t you, aye?
It should be noted — or perhaps you have seen — that I have since then moved on to other things, including a much heavier reliance on Reaper, among other things. Being no quitter, though, I am still trying to work with Podium as much as is possible. This forum continues to intrigue me as well — it varies from a quiet and sometimes peacefully refreshing place to rather uninspiring, even perhaps depressing at times, and certainly not on fire with much new thought or creativity — all a reflection of the DAW it supports.
Yes, sorry, this one ran long. I normally do not care to explain my motives for posting whatever it is I have, but I thought I’d make an exception this one time, perhaps able to benefit another forum member.
Cheers!