Zynewave's Forum Page

The .mini files are cached ‘miniature’ graphic representations of the wave files. Podium uses them to display the waveforms on the tracks, without having to load the entire wave file. You cannot use them to restore your project. Sorry about that.

Hi,

I have downloaded VSampler, and will try it out soon. Currently I’m deeply immersed in implementing embedded sequence editing within the arrangement editor, so it may be a week before I can find time to test it thoroughly.

Frits

Your suggestion above will give me the 24 bit file I want but not without truncating it first. Which we have already discussed earlier in this thread.

There is no way you can put a 32 or 64 bit floating point audio signal into a 24 bit file without truncation. What we discussed earlier was the lack of a dithering option in Podium. But even applying dithering while converting/truncating floating point to 24 bit fixed point still introduces a quality degradation.

Maybe we are talking about different uses here. I consider the Podium bouncing system more like the ‘freeze’ features other hosts have. I believe I’ve read that freeze files in e.g. Tracktion are stored in floating point files. The ‘bounced file resolution’ option you refer to for other hosts, is perhaps more intended for exporting audio files for use in other applications. This is also why I suggested that it is only the master output bounce sound that you should set to a lower bit-resolution, because this is normally the only file you need to do further processing on with other mastering tools, mp3-conversion, etc. All other bounce tracks in an arrangement are primarily used for freeing up plugin resources. If you convert these bounce sounds to a lower resolution, then your bounced recordings will not have the same detail as the non-bounced audio.

The only advantage of using e.g. 24 bit fixed point bounce files will be the reduced file sizes. There are major drawbacks though. It is less CPU efficent because the floating point signal has to be converted and clipped to fixed point. Having overloaded signals in the mixing engine is not a problem, because you can lower the gain of the signal further up the hierarchy. But if you put a fixed point bounce into this signal path, then any overloaded signal will be clipped, causing further degradation.

When I said it is not possible to bounce a 24 bit I was right. You said it can be done by going into the sound properties for the file and making changes there. But that is *post* bounce and will truncate the file. See what I mean? That is, *after* the bounce has been done, so in Podium it still is not possible to bounce a file to 24bits without having to change the bounced file, which will either be 64bits or 32bits to start with, based on the mixer engine options that currently exist in Podium.

It is irrelevant if it is done post or pre bouncing. You can choose to create the blank bounce sound, change the properties of the sound, and then do the bounce recording. That would be *pre* bouncing, but it is still the same truncation process that occurs.

It can indeed be done, if truncating the file afterwards is not an issue, but after carefully creating a file in the first place it is seems strange to truncate it at any stage of the music process.

Yes, but your original question was how to create a 24 bit bounce file. I thought that was why we are discussing this.

It appears the development of the Podium Sequencer involved a process that somehow (read you know better than me here ) tied the mixing engine setting to the bounce resolution.

Not at all. In fact you can create bounce sounds of any bit resolution from 8 to 32 bit fixed point, or 32/64 bit floating point. That is more than what other hosts offer. The only thing Podium does not have, is an option in the preferences that allows you to set the default bit resolution of bounce files. I am hesitant to implement that option because as this discussion hopefully has revealed, choosing anything else than the mixing engine resolution will introduce quality loss. By forcing you to modify the bounce sound properties manually I ensure that you are aware that you’re throwing bits away 😉

The bouncing process is just more visible in Podium, compared to other hosts that stores hidden freeze files. This is perhaps what is confusing you.

I want to avoid the large 32bit files *and* the truncation process.

Those two wishes are unfortunately mutually exclusive, and that applies to all hosts.

Maybe it’s because Intakt is storing some information in bank (fxb) presets that is not present in program (fxp) presets. Try creating bank library presets instead. Use the ‘new bank library preset’ track context menu.

I think we’re misunderstanding each other here.

a. It is not possible to bounce a 24bit file anyway at the moment in Podium even if I tried to do so without the 64 bit option anyway.

It is possible. All you have to do is go into the sound properties for the sound on the bounce track, and set it to the resolution you want. Anything from 8 to 32 bit fixed point, or 32/64 bit floats. And this applies nomatter if you are using 32 or 64 bit mixing engine. Podium will by default create sounds on bounce tracks with the mixer engine resolution, because anything else will cause a quality degradation in the bounced file.

Are you saying here that the truncating process does not affect the master output?

Yes. Not during the bounce recording. When you switch to bounce playback, you will hear the truncated sound file.

If I should try to explain it on other words; When Podium records on bounce tracks, the output of the mixer engine is extracted to the sound file. If this sound file is using a lower bit resolution, then you loose bit resolution in the sound file, but it does not affect the audio streaming. Of course if you then switch the bounce recording on, to free up the plugin resources recorded to the bounce file, then the lower-resolution bounce file will be playing. This is why bounce tracks by default are set to the mixer engine resolution. I do not want to introduce quality loss in the bounce recording system.

Can each of these have their own option please?

I’ll put that on the plan. I’m not so sure about the faded colors though. They are calculated as a blend between the defined color and the background color of the current color scheme. If you were to define the faded color state, it will not be possible to make them appear ‘faded’ with different color schemes.

There is a ‘Surround’ example project with the Podium installer. This uses a couple of plugins (such as a surround panner) that Acousmodules has created specifically for Podium. Links should be in the project stickie note.

Frits