Topic: Preview 2.23: Redesigned group panel

Viewing 15 posts - 166 through 180 (of 256 total)
  • #16765
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @kyran wrote:

    I just think that the ‘E’ button functionality can be put into the general fx slot (clicking the fx slot opens the editor)

    It already is. There are no separate ‘E’ buttons.

    I’ll release a new beta later today.

    #16766
    kingtubby
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    I don’t see any bypass buttons in the Reaper mixer strips either.

    It’s shift+left click by default, though key shortcuts can be re-defined.

    I think having the “show bypass buttons” option satisfies most users. I wouldn’t call it a “step backward” just by having them hidden in the default setup 😉

    The reason I would like to have them hidden, is to provide more space for the effect name. A lot of plugins have long names which will be truncated in the narrow buttons on the mixer strips.

    Agreed.

    Mart.

    #16767
    Conquistador
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    I had a quick look at some other host mixers: The Cubase mixer seems to use two lines for each effect; one for the name and a second line for assorted buttons, including a power button. The Logic Pro 9 mixer does not have bypass buttons, but uses option+click to toggle bypass. I don’t see any bypass buttons in the Reaper mixer strips either.

    I would be very careful about looking elsewhere to see if something that was not a problem in Podium before 2.23, is mirrored elsewhere. Comparison has its merits but in this case Podium has a chance to offer easier access and functionality in this area (like it did pre 2.23) thats all.

    Taking a step back in functionality IMO and effectively saying they have the same setup is a bit puzzling. I would have thought even a small opportunity to make Podium easier and more pleasurable to use would be snapped up.

    . I wouldn’t call it a “step backward” just by having them hidden in the default setup 😉

    Call it what you will… 😉

    Step backward, a degree of added complication or simply a case of design / presentation over functionality…its a small part of the interface but one that is very important to access quickly and easily.

    The reason I would like to have them hidden, is to provide more space for the effect name. A lot of plugins have long names which will be truncated in the narrow buttons on the mixer strips

    FR alert…

    That is easily solved by having mixer strips one can drag to the right and having the FX buttons resize accordingly. Otherwise we have the current situation where a bypass button is removed to make way for plugin text. A user should not have to trade one for the other. Mixer strips need to be wider by default or…dragging them should resize fx buttons which should as a result make more text visible. Solved.

    A user will then be able to decide for themsleves how comfortable they are with a strips width versus the text they need to see on a button IMO.

    #16768
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @Conquistador wrote:

    @Zynewave wrote:

    I had a quick look at some other host mixers: The Cubase mixer seems to use two lines for each effect; one for the name and a second line for assorted buttons, including a power button. The Logic Pro 9 mixer does not have bypass buttons, but uses option+click to toggle bypass. I don’t see any bypass buttons in the Reaper mixer strips either.

    I would be very careful about looking elsewhere to see if something that was not a problem in Podium before 2.23, is mirrored elsewhere. Comparison has its merits but in this case Podium has a chance to offer easier access and functionality in this area (like it did pre 2.23) thats all.

    Taking a step back in functionality IMO and effectively saying they have the same setup is a bit puzzling. I would have thought even a small opportunity to make Podium easier and more pleasurable to use would be snapped up.

    . I wouldn’t call it a “step backward” just by having them hidden in the default setup 😉

    Call it what you will… 😉

    Step backward, a degree of added complication or simply a case of design / presentation over functionality…its a small part of the interface but one that is very important to access quickly and easily.

    The reason I would like to have them hidden, is to provide more space for the effect name. A lot of plugins have long names which will be truncated in the narrow buttons on the mixer strips

    FR alert…

    That is easily solved by having mixer strips one can drag to the right and having the FX buttons resize accordingly. Otherwise we have the current situation where a bypass button is removed to make way for plugin text. A user should not have to trade one for the other. Mixer strips need to be wider by default or…dragging them should resize fx buttons which should as a result make more text visible. Solved.

    A user will then be able to decide for themsleves how comfortable they are with a strips width versus the text they need to see on a button IMO.

    I’m sorry, but this post does not make sense to me.

    Saying that this is “Taking a step back in functionality” is overreacting. I’ve mentioned several times now that you just enable the “show bypass buttons” option, and then you have it the way you want.

    I made the comparison with other host mixers, just to verify that hiding the bypass buttons by default would not be a catastrophic decision. If Logic Pro users can live without bypass buttons, then I feel confident that it is ok to have the bypass buttons hidden by default.

    And the mixer strips can already be resized with the “minimum strip width” setting in the mixer region properties. As I’ve previously mentioned in this topic, I’m also going to add strip width zooming.

    #16769
    thcilnnahoj
    Participant

    @Zynewave wrote:

    Yes, something like that. Thanks for the mockup. There are pros and cons with that layout. One advantage (IMO) is that you get all controls/track names vertically aligned on all the tracks. Some may think that this improves the overview, while others may think the lack of indentation of the track names disrupts the overview. Personally I think indentation works well in for example a file folder list, but I often find it confusing that the track header controls are shifted around according to group level position. What do people think?

    The new way generally sounds like it will take a little getting used to, but I’m fine with either.
    It didn’t bother me that the controls are not in line, and in turn it wouldn’t bother me that the indentation level would be displayed a little differently. But then, I rarely have a deeper group level than 2 or 3 (not counting the master group).

    Did you say new beta? …I gotta go get a few more cups of coffee then. 🙂

    #16770
    Conquistador
    Participant

    I’m sorry, but this post does not make sense to me.

    Ok…I think this discussion is sadly starting to slide a bit. You seem offended by my choice of words…”step backward” and feel the need to defend yourself… no need.

    I made the comparison with other host mixers, just to verify that hiding the bypass buttons by default would not be a catastrophic decision. If Logic Pro users can live without bypass buttons, then I feel confident that it is ok to have the bypass buttons hidden by default.

    Make the comparisions you want with other hosts we all do, I just think the comparison was and is strange but don’t take my comments so personally.

    Saying that this is “Taking a step back in functionality” is overreacting.

    But you saying “Catastrophic” is not?

    That is hardly the way I described it now is it?. Look a simple difference in opinion should not offend you. Its impossible for everyone to agree about everything all the time. No need to get upset. Really.

    I’ll leave this exchange of words with you here, as I just wanted to share my views on this forum about Podium (which AFAICT has not been a problem until now), not upset you. If you do not understand them or agree thats fine by me but please try and accept that without getting upset. Its just too small an issue for that.

    Peace. 😉

    #16771
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    Beta 9 is up. I don’t have a specific changelog. There are just too many changes to list. I’m going to have a hard time writing the release note for 2.23. Maybe I should just release it as Podium v3.0 😉

    I have not spent much time on testing the new mixer, so please wait with bug-hunting until the following beta, after I have verified all my code changes. With beta 9 you should however be able to see how the new mixer works, and so I would appreciate any feedback you have on the layout and behaviour of the mixer.

    #16772
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @Conquistador wrote:

    I’m sorry, but this post does not make sense to me.

    Ok…I think this discussion is sadly starting to slide a bit. You seem offended by my choice of words…”step backward” and feel the need to defend yourself… no need.

    I made the comparison with other host mixers, just to verify that hiding the bypass buttons by default would not be a catastrophic decision. If Logic Pro users can live without bypass buttons, then I feel confident that it is ok to have the bypass buttons hidden by default.

    Make the comparisions you want with other hosts we all do, I just think the comparison was and is strange but don’t take my comments so personally.

    Saying that this is “Taking a step back in functionality” is overreacting.

    But you saying “Catastrophic” is not?

    That is hardly the way I described it now is it?. Look a simple difference in opinion should not offend you. Its impossible for everyone to agree about everything all the time. No need to get upset. Really.

    I’ll leave this exchange of words with you here, as I just wanted to share my views on this forum about Podium (which AFAICT has not been a problem until now), not upset you. If you do not understand them or agree thats fine by me but please try and accept that without getting upset. Its just too small an issue for that.

    Peace. 😉

    😯
    Ok, apologies for apparently having offended you back. Let’s call this one “lost in translation”. After having mentioned the “show bypass buttons” option in three of my previous posts, I guess I was annoyed that you still claimed this was a step back in functionality. It’s just two mouse clicks to change the option, and the setting is remembered when you restart Podium.

    #16773
    Conquistador
    Participant

    Apologies from me too… >handshake< :)

    #16774
    thcilnnahoj
    Participant

    A few quick comments before I go to bed:
    – The selection frame’s a little awkward at first, but soon feels right and looks very nice. The SMR buttons and the mixing grid being overlapped skews the picture, though.
    – Separation lines on track headers are great, as are the transparant volume faders! 8)
    – Tiny selectors on track headers, hmm… I haven’t found a device with a name that takes more than half of the available space. Also the lack of bypass buttons – there’s more than enough room, I think. Like this, the only way for newcomers trying Podium for the first time (meaning no knowledge of keyboard shortcuts or mixer options) using the default setup to bypass a plug-in is in the rack panel. But maybe this is just a far-fetched example.
    – The whole upper half of horizontal fader grooves is drowned in shadows, making it unnecessarily hard to see the coloring, which is such a nice feature. 🙁
    – I like the non-shadowy look of the vertical fader grooves, but as I said before it looks blurry on dark background. I also wouldn’t mind them being even a little wider still.

    Here’s another way to display bypass buttons I believe worth mentioning (used in Fabfilter plug-ins). The control’s not (just) a selector like in Podium, but the principle can be applied to those as well. Just disregard the level bar, +/- and X buttons on the sides.

    1. Control in its normal state. (If you move the mouse on it you can adjust the level)
    2. Mouse hovering over left edge of control – it turns into a little power button.
    3. Control in bypassed state, without the mouse hovering over it.

    Podium’s bypass X button could, for example, appear as soon as the mouse cursor is moved anywhere on a selector button, like saying “Hi! If you want to bypass this thing, I’m over here. Otherwise just click anywhere else to open the editor.”

    #16775
    Zynewave
    Keymaster

    @thcilnnahoj wrote:

    A few quick comments before I go to bed:

    Thanks for the feedback.

    – Tiny selectors on track headers, hmm… I haven’t found a device with a name that takes more than half of the available space. Also the lack of bypass buttons – there’s more than enough room, I think. Like this, the only way for newcomers trying Podium for the first time (meaning no knowledge of keyboard shortcuts or mixer options) using the default setup to bypass a plug-in is in the rack panel. But maybe this is just a far-fetched example.

    Yes, that was a mistake. The bypass buttons are now shown on the track headers. I also noticed a bug that has appeared in beta9, causing the entire selector to be colored as bypassed, even when a separate bypass button is shown. That is now fixed.

    – The whole upper half of horizontal fader grooves is drowned in shadows, making it unnecessarily hard to see the coloring, which is such a nice feature. 🙁
    – I like the non-shadowy look of the vertical fader grooves, but as I said before it looks blurry on dark background. I also wouldn’t mind them being even a little wider still.

    The shadows are drawn using the same algorithm that is used for all shadows in Podium: The lighting comes from above (slightly to the left), so the horizontal grooves will be naturally darker than the vertical ones. I’ll see if I can twist reality a bit.

    Here’s another way to display bypass buttons I believe worth mentioning (used in Fabfilter plug-ins). The control’s not (just) a selector like in Podium, but the principle can be applied to those as well. Just disregard the level bar, +/- and X buttons on the sides.

    1. Control in its normal state. (If you move the mouse on it you can adjust the level)
    2. Mouse hovering over left edge of control – it turns into a little power button.
    3. Control in bypassed state, without the mouse hovering over it.

    Podium’s bypass X button could, for example, appear as soon as the mouse cursor is moved anywhere on a selector button, like saying “Hi! If you want to bypass this thing, I’m over here. Otherwise just click anywhere else to open the editor.”

    Unfortunately this behaviour is not very “touch screen” friendly. I’m not saying I’m going to change the entire Podium UI to focus on touch screen support, but I do think that touch screen operation will become more prominent in the future. So I keep that in mind when I design UI behaviour. Pressing on a touch screen will perform a click, and so you don’t have the usual mouse cursor you can move over controls to reveal more options.

    #16776
    LiquidProj3ct
    Participant

    My feedback about beta 9:

    – Please, allow copy/move fx between mixer strips
    – It isn’t congruent selecting a mixer strip (with a certain colour) and the associated track. While the mixer strip is frame-coloured, the mixer track is full coloured overriding the existent colour.
    – Maybe you should allow inspector rack have the same format that mixer strip, with small plugin slots
    – I think this is a very good point: Left click on “Send”s in normal insert mixer strip is useless. You could easily delete the send faders and crush it in a new derived component, where the fader is inside the send slot.
    – Could the popup dialogs with dB/pan info follow the faders instead be static? I think it would be cool.
    – Changing the strips names without open the track properties windows would be cool, writting straight in the interface. In fact I think someday will be possible eliminate that window…

    Now I’m going to work 🙄

    #16777
    LiquidProj3ct
    Participant

    Extra comments 😀

    – Could be possible hide Bus Return and Master from track list? (not from mixer!) I think they’re unuseful and a waste of valuable vertical space.
    – When tracks are minimized appears the “minimize button” and when they’re maximized appears the “maximized button”?

    From here:

    To here:

    #16778
    kyran
    Participant

    @LiquidProj3ct wrote:

    Extra comments 😀

    – Could be possible hide Bus Return and Master from track list? (not from mixer!) I think they’re unuseful and a waste of valuable vertical space.
    – When tracks are minimized appears the “minimize button” and when they’re maximized appears the “maximized button”?

    You might want to automate parameters on the busreturn tracks, so you need to be able to see them. (Live also shows them for this reason)

    The master track contains the master bsmr buttons, which are also very useful and among other things provide quick access to rendering the track. Also consider that podium supports surround mixing, so you might have 3 master channels (2 stereo and 1 mono center)

    #16779
    LiquidProj3ct
    Participant

    Well, I said ‘hide’ not ‘erase’ 🙂

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