acousmodGo on then…I have a Pentium D, what exactly do you want me to look for?
Oh, just open several instances of the plug and run Podium with the multiprocessing option activated.
When loading the plugin it displays several warning messages about unregistered Synthedit modules.
Thanks, corrected now.
I added two instances of the plugin to the surround example project. I encountered no problems. I recorded automation by dragging the “donuts” Razz and playback was ok.
Thanks for the try.
So I suppose that I just have now to change the element in all the plugs et voilà !
How strange is computing…..
acousmodSince all the plugins which are based on the distance calculation had the problem with multiprocessing in Podium, I have tried to find what was the reason.
I’ve slightly changed the method in the distance calculation formula, a Max object by a Limit, and it seems that now the plugins have no more problem.
Can somebody that have a dual processor (I have only a HT) make a try to confirm ?
You can try with several instances of the SpatPod : http://acousmodules.free.fr/fichiers/surround/SpatPod5.1.rar
Thanks !
acousmodFrits, you can’t know how this change in the Presets is a relief for me !
I begun to be rather desperated with the number of workarounds I had to do with the previous system, and now it is just as easy than in other softwares 😛
I have now to convert my previous projects, but it is worth it !
Thank you VERY VERY much !
acousmodTry this : http://acousmodules.free.fr/fichiers/MIDIPlug_V.rar
and the Device Definition http://acousmodules.free.fr/podium/MIDIPlug_V.pod
But only one note at a time, and perhaps not at all what you are searching…
acousmodHi,
I’m not sure that I have understand what you are searching…
In the case, perhaps this plugin can help ? http://acousmodules.free.fr/fichiers/masses/SpatLevels817.rar
(you must select “Device is an instrument (accept MIDI notes)” in the Device Mapping Properties of the plug).
It is made for controlling audio levels, but as it can be controlled by a keyboard, we can see what notes are played.
It works in Podium but perhaps not how you want to.
Cheers
acousmodThanks again Frits for taking time to give these explainations.
As I have told you, it is not a big problem actually since I do the main processings outside of Podium, all I need is to be able to do montage / mixing, with some kind of “matrix” plugins which do not present this problem.
When I need some others it is simple to turn off the multiprocessing.
Especially with a HT processor, the difference is not huge…
I will try nevertheless to find if there is something to change in the processing of some plugins, for when I will afford to buy a true dual core computer 😉 .
acousmodHi,
I’ve asked to RME if it will be a possibility to hide some channels (the SPDIF) in order to have access in Podium to the last four outputs of my second Multiface (outputs 33 to 36).
Here is the answer from CHris Ludwig :
Hi,
Sounds like the folks who make Podium need to work on how their software
addresses audio I/O. Most any software I’ve seen can freely assign I/O.
It is something that the software developer will have to work on not the
hardware folks.
Chris
So, if you have the time one day…
A simple hidding function like in EnergyXT will be enough to start with, but of course a standard selection will be better for everybody 🙂 .
acousmodIt seems that Nuendo (and Cubase) handle the multiprocessing in a similar manner as Podium :
“· In the default, “regular” multi-processing mode (Advanced Multi-Processing deactivated), the complete audio engine, including all mixing and effects, runs on one processor, while the other processor is responsible for all other activities (user interface, MIDI tasks, file handling, system tasks, etc.).
Note that this means that the maximum processing power available to the audio engine is still 1 CPU, since the complete audio process runs on a single processor.
· When Advanced Multi-Processing is activated, the audio engine tasks will be distributed to both processors.
Still one processor is doing the MIDI, file handling and user interface, but its remaining processor bandwidth can be used for audio tasks. Since the audio engine is usually the task that requires the most processor time, Advanced Multi-Processing can be much more performance efficient than “regular” multi-processing. “
But for me, no crash in Nuendo with the same plugins…
acousmodIf you disable the ‘multiprocessing’ option on the audio page in the preferences dialog, does the crashes still occur?
No, happily.
It is also possible to mute the plugs when starting the engine and unmute them after : in this manner they can work in “full multiprocessing”… but it is not very funny to do.
xis 23 : it may be a solution for you if you want nevertheless to use plugins which may crash otherwise ?
maybe their developers just aren’t ready for multiprocessing yet!
Maybe would it be possible to give the possibility to handle multiprocessing in an alternative way, for both compatibility and performances ?
For example, if we have two plugins running each on one processor is it worst that if both of them are running on the two ?
Do you know if some hosts make this kind of dynamic allocation of plugins, each on one processor/thread, instead of spreading them across all processors ?
acousmodHi,
The problem is far ennoying that I thought : I’ve opened the project which I have made last year and… crash !
In fact, all my plugins make nearly always Podium crashing when there is more than one instance and Podium runs with the two “CPU” of the P4HT.
I’ve ended this project in october, so do you think that something has changed in Podium’s code since this date ?
Or could it be something on my computer that makes this happend ?
I’ve never had a single crash due to my plugins, on this computer, before january or february (I didn’t remember).
Nothing has changed in the hardware.
I have made some tests to try to know how the CPUs are used with some combinations and plugins, to try to learn if there is a way to avoid this problem.
For example, with an instrument plugin, with a lot of controls of parameters :
– Podium : it takes only one processor, +/- 30% (CPU load value in Podium 50 to 70%)
– Audiomulch : takes one processor, +/- 26%
– Nuendo 2 : takes one processor, +/- 30%
Other effect plugin :
– Podium : 2 processors, +/- 55% (CPU load value in Podium +/- 36%)
– Audiomulch : one processor, +/- 30%
Thoses last values looks strange for me, but there is certainly an explaination ?
Several instances can run without problem except in Podium WHEN THE ENGINE STARTS.
If I add instances of the plugins WHILE the Podium’s engine is running, there is no problem, I can work with all of them.
But if I shut down the engine and restart it : crash…
Does this help ?
Thanks.
acousmodI think that MIDI Learn for VSTi is a feature that must be implemented in the plugin, not in the host ?
But such a feature on Podium’s objects like volume faders will be of course wellcome at some point.
acousmodI just doubt that it’s intentionally coded into Podium
Since a mapping can be what you want, an effect, an instrument or a bus, all combinations of audio and MIDI sequences are possible.
Perhaps that Frits has not coded Podium in order to have a wave file on a “MIDI track”, but he has obviously coded it to allow what we want to do with mappings, and tracks are neither audio nor MIDI, even not “tracks” really…
The difference between effects and instruments is only a consequence of the standard worflow in softwares that imitate audio hardware (like Cubase), and there are a lot of plugins which are instruments AND that can process audio, and effects that receive MIDI including notes.
I think that this distinction has no more real interest in modern softwares and I like a lot the concept of mappings in Podium which avoid it.
For me, I prefer to have seperate objects on separate lanes (with grouping !), I find it less confusing.
What “creative possibilities” do you think about ?
acousmodThank you for these explainations.
Do you think about something that could be done in the plugins to limit or avoid this ?
Those which work and those which crash are very very similar…
acousmodWhich other hosts have you tried that support multiprocessing? The problem I mentioned with Lallapallooza will only occur if the host runs multiple instances of the plugin on different CPUs.
AudioMulch, Bidule, EnergyXT, Nuendo, Tracktion.
I can’t say how they use the two “processors” but they both show activity in these programs.
I have also a plugin which has a real problem with multiprocessing, and when I switch EnergyXT, Bidule or Audiomulch to one thread only there is no more problem with this plugin.
So I suppose that they use the two processors, perhaps that it is not “true multiprocessing” ?
The SpatPod, for example, runs fine in all these programs with several instances, but makes Podium crash.
Can you make a test ?
Perhaps is it also computer dependant ?
I have made some new tests because there is some time that I have not look at this :
– the crash occurs as soon as the engine is activated nearly at each time, but sometimes it can run fine
– the messages are not exatcly the same (see first post)
– if I deactivate one thread for Podium, the plugin doesn’t generally make Podium crash, but some time it does
– the crash occurs when there is several instances of the plugin but also some times with only one instance
– I’ve used the same build of the plugin last year, on the same computer, without any problem
– it doesn’t seem to be related to the date of the build and the version of Synthedit
– there is obviously something in the plugins that causes the problem, but I haven’t found anything logical
I don’t know if this will help ?
As I have said before, don’t waste time on this if it is the only case of such a problem, there are other things more important…
Cheers.
acousmodIt may be a problem with Synthedit (Lallapallooza is using a very old Synthedit version), or it may be something in the plugin schematic that causes the crash.
Yes, it is what I supposed too.
I’ve tried with some versions that used to work, like the SpatPod, but I can’t use it anymore in Podium on my P4HT until I deactivate one thread (and sometimes it even crash).
I’ve recompiled it with the last Synthedit versions : no change.
More curious is that some plugins that use the same base shematics run fine.
I’ve also made a test with a simpler one, which don’t use any third party module and it crashs also. Others with the same elements and more complicated have no problem.
There is certainly something between Synthedit and Podium, since absolutely no other host has this problem, but I have not discovered any constant cause, so I’ve abandonned for now. It is why I didn’t bothered you with this sooner :wink:.
Podianer’s post has made me think that the problem is perhaps not completely Synthedit relative, so I had some hope to be a solution.
It’s not a urgent problem for me, since I work on other things while waiting for the “meta event” that will allow synchronization of automation events in Podium 😛